Dear Harish,                                                                                Varanasi, March 9, 1999.

Greetings!

As you have requested me to give my opinion after visiting Shisya’s team, I am writing this:

To begin with from Chandaneswar, I too agree with you that in spite of his personality problem, Vipul through his personal evangelism shared the gospel and brought few individuals to Christ.  But I personally feel that it is one thing to say that ‘in spite’ of several of our limitations God uses us and another thing to do some of those limitations.  We have to recognize that when God has brought certain shortcomings either in our temperament etc., which may hinder further CG, then we have to take some steps to correct it.  Personal evangelism is one thing and Pastoral care is another type of work.  To help the new believers to grow in the Lord is more difficult task where God may use some other person better prepared for that.  Vipul is a humble man, who agreed with me that he has some problem.  So what is urgently needed at Chandaneswar is a proper person along with Vipul who can help the new bhaktas to grow in the Lord as well as help Vipul in his personality problem.  Ask Vipul not to play Christian messages and Bible studies particularly in English when other contacts and believers are with him in his house.  I also came to know that he insist in teaching English songs to the new believers in the name of spirituality.  Is it necessary?

As Railway line is out of order I couldn’t go to Gokul’s place but hope he has decided to do the business which I introduced.  I went to Anil’s village in his absence on March first.  He went to Gokul’s place to meet me and inform about the current situation.  As I didn’t go to Gokul’s place we couldn’t meet.  At Anil’s place there was lot of tension, but mostly due to political reason.  However through his brother (it is very sad that one Orthodox church man is in the same house, showing a bad model [like crossing before and after prayer etc.,] to the bhaktas there) and wife I came to know that there is  tension in the family too.  Particularly I saw tension in Anil’s mother’s face.  However as I cannot talk much with them in Hindi, On March 2nd Chitto came to see me and explained about what is going there.  The BJP & Co. went to the bhakta’s houses and threatened them to give up their faith in Christ.  Of course the real problem started only after the advent of Seventh Day Adventists’ arrival and promises of Schools, Hospital and College with free education on conversion.  But Chitto told me in person that he is ready to give his life for his faith in Christ at the same time made it clear to those who oppose that he and other Christ bhaktas are not Christians.  One way it is good that such trial God has sent in time.  As Chitto requested me to leave as early as possible, I left the same day.

God is doing wonderful things at Durgapur.  The boys are doing fine. I visited few families and lots of people came to talk to me.  Jitendar Sha is keeping his faith alive and strong in spite of pressures put on him but his neighbours.  After my personal talk again he is convinced of his faith as Hindu Christ bhaktas and left the Sunday worship with joy on March 7th.  Regarding Koshik , he also got some of his doubts cleared after asking several questions to me.  Pravin Datta is really growing in the Lord and soon he will be a good follower of the Lord.  Sri Arjun Lal Joshi and Sri Suresh Chanra Deexit after the Sunday worship asked several genuine questions regarding the Bible and about the Lord.  As Joshi requested me to visit his house on the same evening,  we three went.  To make it short now he is ready to follow the Lord and even ready for Deeksha.  But we have to pray for his throat problem as he couldn’t speak properly in recent time.  Deexit (retired Engineer) is very much open.  Like wise Ganesh Roy a, police man came on 8th and asked several questions about the Bible and the Lord.  Apart from these I also met others and I need not go in detail on all those visits.  There is lot of hope in Durgapur. But….

The boys have to change a lot.  Deexit on 7th evening at Joshi’s house, during our talk on opposition to conversion by BJP and others said, “Indian Govt., is not allowing Billy Graham who is the head of the Protestant Religion.  Because if he come and preach lots of Hindus will become Christians.  Even in your Project light Song book, says that before 2000 A.D. you will convert 10 crore people to Christianity, I mean to bring them to spirituality.  And there is no wrong in it….etc.,”

I wish I could have recorded what all he shared.  Why on earth the Durgapur boys keep Project Light Song books there?  Asong was taken back when Deexit mentioned about O.M. target of sharing the gospel (which according to Deexit is to convert people to Christianity) to 10 Crore people before 2000 A.D.  Asong said on our way back to the house, ” Even I myself don’t know that such thing is mentioned in that song book.”  When we returned he first checked the book and found it there.  What your own O.M. boys couldn’t find a Hindu can easily find and remember about such target oriented Christian activity.  Even at Chandaneswar I saw Operation World in front of me in the book shelf.  I first asked them to keep it under the cot or in their suit cases.  Would you please cleanse all your shishya team fields from such books and materials.  At Durgapur a Christian magazine ‘It is Happening’ was there in the front room which anybody can take and read.  And these kinds of magazines and news letters are giving lots of information about ‘Christian activity’ of ‘conversion’ etc., Why your team boys should even receive such magazines?  Ask them not to get such magazines which is declaring their target before and after 2000 A.D.  Or if they want to get those information ‘to pray’, tell them to keep not in the front room or on the tea table from any visitor can take and get all kinds of those informations.

Regarding the songs, already I heard at Balasore that you are going to publish another song book for your teams.  But what is the use.  Why Aara team should have a song book with Bengali songs and Anil people with Hindi and Bojpuri.  What Chandaneswar people need is both Oriya and Bengali songs and not Hindi.  Above all can’t they sing few bhajans by heart as they are most of the time singing only three or four regular bhajans.  Even if the new believers need some songs, we have to select ten songs which is needed in each field according to their respective language (five bhojpuri and five Hindi for Aara ) and it can be easily typed and printed in Computer like a small book let and few copies can be made out of it.  With 75% budget cut why this extravagance of producing another song book (if you have decided to go ahead with it with Hindi, Bengali and Orriya, at least don’t put any target in the front cover).  In this context I have to say one more thing.  Only during the worship time the boys are using Harmonium.  And without any practice they play in their own way.  Why cannot you instruct them to have some regular practice in week days.  As Full Time Workers why cannot they practise in week days?

One more point which I would like to share is that in the name of Uniformity you are imposing some practices which are not relevant to every field.  To begin with why it should be grape juice in every field.  At Anil’s place Milk would be more relevant as that is available cheaply there.  Next in the name of Common cup why the bhaktas should drink from the same cup.  At Durgapur Koshik refused to participate in the Communion.  Though there may be other reasons, as a Brahmin it is abomination for him to drink jutta from the same glass.  For God’s sake don’t impose any uniformity in the order and elements that are to be used in the communion service.  What is relevant at Durgapur (a semi-cosmopolitan town) need not be followed at Anil’s place.  Like wise when non-baptized persons are also sitting in the worship service never sent them empty handed.  At Chandaneswar I first distributed banana as Prasad to those non-baptized people and then roti and grape juice, that too not drinking from the same cup but dipped the roti in the juice I gave (or we can use a small spoon to give the juice or milk in their hand).  At Durgapur I first gave date fruit to others before giving Communion to the bhaktas.  At Sudai (in Madhubani) we first gave laddu to others and rotti and milk to bhaktas after that.  We cannot send a Hindu empty handed while giving Maha-prasad to believers.  I told Anil, Vipul and Mukta to follow it.  It is interesting to note that while you want to have uniformity in the elements served and service conducted, yet at Chandaneswar Anil gave Communion to everyone including to non-baptized persons where as in other places he gave only to the bhaktas and nothing to others who attend the meeting.

Finally you have to arrange for the marriage as early as possible for Durgapur boys for various reasons.  Age should not be the criteria there.  I also encouraged them to start tuition for the students so that they can earn some money.  Before they leave Lucknow meeting see that they at least get one ceiling fan.  Lots of people are always coming to see them.  And without a ceiling fan how they are going to manage this summer?  If possible arrange for two ceiling fans and if not at least one.  In stead of printing song book buy one fan for them first.

–That is all for this time.  God bless!

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Ivor Soans < ivor@vsnl.com > wrote:

Recently I came across a posting of a very interesting article on Indian christian youth, a Yahoo group devoted to Indian Christian youth. I thought that some of you might be interested in reading this posting and the responses to it, especially the second response. The posting was originally by Shantanu Dutta, who writes regularly in Light of Life, and works for a Christian organisation in New Delhi.

Ivor Soans

Assistant Editor, Express Computer, Indian Express Newspapers (Bombay) Ltd

+91-22-230 1020; 202 2627 Extension 271

From: “shantanudutta” < shantanudutta@usa.net To: indianchristianyouth@yahoogroups.comSent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 1:01 PM

Subject: [indianchristianyouth] (unknown)Some time ago I wrote an essay for a Haggai Institute Seminar which I would like to share for some feedback and comment,particularly from First generation christians( there must be some

here!) and others who might be interested. Thanks.

The Light of Life magazine, which is a prominent Indian Christian magazine in one of its issues a few years back carried an interview with Mr.R.K.Karanjia, editor, Blitz Bombay, which at one time was a leading Indian Tabloid. Mr. Karanjia and the Blitz are both eminent representatives of Indian journalism of a generation past. In his interview the seasoned journalist spoke of his

experiences which helped him to understand and accept the living reality of Jesus and the fellowship with His disciples as manifested by a local church

congregation. He went on to point out how he was subsequently able to take up a new spiritual identity, which he continued to embrace.

Subsequent to his “conversion”, in 1989, Karanjia went to Russia to receive a professional award. There, he saw a communist party official, fairly high in the party hierarchy who had demolished the Christian cathedral of the Czars “down own his knees worshipping the Cross of Jesus Christ”. Later they had a long talk

which was “the first blow which moved me from Karl Marx and his communist  ideology to Jesus Christ and his disciples” and which finally led his own

evolution into a devotee of Jesus as he described himself.

The turning point of Karanjia’s experience with Jesus was at the Breach Candy Hospital. It was an elderly nursing sister who had come to know Jesus through a deep personal tragedy who helped him experience the spiritual power of physical strength and healing in God through Jesus. After that, Karanjia says, he went ahead experimenting with little or big miracles on behalf of himself and others. He relates one experience where faced with the tragedy of a baby with meningitis, he talked to the grandmother about Jesus and his healing power, and got her family’s consent for prayers. He spoke to a Christian group about him and they too began to pray for his quick and complete recovery”. The baby was cured. The interviewer asked him whether he was converted to Christianity and he

answered, “No. I am not converted to Christianity. I am not a Christian. I continue to be a Zoroastrian. All I have done is to accept Jesus Christ in my heart. Nobody has tried to persuade me into anything like a conversion. Nobody has hinted at such an attempt.” He added, “When I first received Jesus in my heart, as I was asked to, I felt my inside transforming itself into the hall of

the Cathedral of His Holy Name with angels singing Hallelujah”. And his heart was filled with joy and a “stupendous faith” took hold of him. “It was a moment when I felt as if I were overlooking and piloting the universe.”

How do we evaluate the case of Karanjia’s conversion to faith in Christ and his fellowship with believers in Christ? He explicitly professed to receive Jesus into his life at a specific point in time and yet declined to disown his Zoroastrian community, its culture and way of life. From the point of view of evangelism and missions would he be classified as a “Christian”? Is there

scripturally a “Christian community” as such? The Bible talks of the church,

the mystical body of Christ and proclaims that all true believers are members of this body, whether they attend a physical church fellowship or not.

However, all believers are exhorted to meet together for prayer, fellowship, worship and the preaching of the Word of God. Can we say the church and the christian community are synonymous? I pose these hopefully penetrating questions because in the perennially charged communal atmosphere of India, where the line between evangelism, prosleytisation and conversion is often hazy, they are extremely relevant. Karanjia’s narration of his spiritual experience with Jesus, is not expressed in conventional evangelical language. Even so, it underlines the subtle differentiation between the process of conversion as understood in India which implies an explicit or implicit abandonment of not just one’s spiritual beliefs but also long held social norms, customs and practices in the name of accepting and embracing a “biblical lifestyle”. A distinction has not been appropriately made between jettisoning false religious beliefs and acknowledging the Living God and the cherishing our rich cultural heritage and roots without worshipping the same.

Modern western culture traces its origins broadly to the Greek and Roman

civilizations. Names like Apollo, Titan , Dinah , all pagan deities etc. are still part of the popular vocabulary not as objects of worship but certainly as markers of where the origins of their culture and civilization lie.  Ethical and moral principles apart where of course scripture is an irrefutable authority, many aspects of a biblical lifestyle are nothing more than a mix of Semitic customs and Western practices. The custom of burial is a good example. In the desert of the Middle East where the Abrahamic religions (including Islam)

originated, wood was scarce whereas sand and barren land was plentiful. It made sense therefore to choose to bury therefore rather than cremate. Today, we know from the scriptures that the body that we will get on the day of the resurrection will be a glorified one and the one we will discard at our deaths will be reduced ” dust to dust, ashes to ashes”. Still burial is an integral part of the biblical lifestyle package and most churches will frown on cremation, although this is a cheaper, faster and more meaningful in a country where there is scarcity of land even

=== message truncated ===

Dear friend in Christ,                          Hosur, January 30, 2002.

As I am not sure to whom to send the response, I am sending this to you.

As you have asked for some kind of response, I would like to share my perspective.  I am a bhakta of Christ and definitely not a ‘Christian’ in any way.  As , ‘the process of conversion as understood in India’ both by Christians and Hindus is not right and as per my understanding of the bible conversion does not mean changing communities (I Cor. 7:17), I agree with  Sri Karanjia’s that one can be a member of one’s own community in which he/she was born and brought up and be a bhakta of Christ.  In my book ‘Living Water and Indian Bowl’, (Revised edition, Delhi, ISPCK, 2001) I shared about this to some extent.

‘From the point of view of evangelism and missions would he be classified as a “Christian”?’

–why every the spiritual experience in Christ should be always measured, understood and interpreted by any point of view of ‘evangelism and mission’?  These are extra biblical programmes and principles, particularly in mission to ‘measure’ their statistics. The concept of a ‘Christian Community’ is completely out of question from the bible.  And if any one argues about that reality, then we have to talk about ‘Christian COMMUNITIES’ (note the plural) at least in India.  Then to which Christian community a convert should join?

We all need the fellowship of other followers of Christ to grow in our spiritual life.  Above all as our faith in Christ (not any Christian faith) cannot be experienced and shared in isolation.  But the concept of fellowship is much lacking inside the church buildings, where Christians gather together just for three hours in a week to exercise their religious duty (sorry for such strong words).  This doesn’t mean that I am against the organized worship inside the church as a religious/spiritual activity for the Christian communities.  They need it.  But if fellowship is the main criteria for us to join with them in their church activities, then we cannot get it there.  For me most of the church activities are centered on the pulpit with lots of programmes and activities.  They may help the Christians and their church leaders to be busy.  But a Christ bhakta hardly could ever get true fellowship there.

How can we claim that both the church and Christian communities are the same? Church both as a mystical and living body of Christ means that the members of that body has a ‘living relationship’ with the Head—Christ Jesus.  We all are familiar about the technical term (at least in India) about ‘nominal Christian’, differentiating from a ‘born again believer’, we have differentiated the Christian community from the body of Christ.  In India, a Christian is a member of a particular church or just born in a Christian family IRRESPECTIVE of his/her faith in Christ.  So at least in our country Church as the living body of Christ is definitely different from the Christian communities.

‘Still burial is an integral part of the biblical lifestyle package and most churches will frown on cremation.’

–if the Christians strictly want to follow the ‘biblical lifestyle package of burial’, then they have to rap the dead body with cloths (if possible covering with costly perfume masala) and put in side a cave or tomb curved out from the rock.  At least ‘Christian burial’ with the (costly) wooden coffins is not biblical.  It is also a western lifestyle package.  One of my friends told me that in Philippians as all people cannot afford for a burial site, they rent one burial place which is constructed like modern almera and after a year or two will vacate it and it will be rented by some one else.  Dr. Stanley Jones body was cremated at Bareli (on the bank of Ganga?) and part of his ash is buried at Sat-tal Ashram (near Nainital in Uttaranchal) and rest in his hometown at Baltimore in America.  In resurrection which part of the body will raise from India and which from America that too vertically or horizontally.  I cannot understand the Christians claim that the ‘dead must be buried in a Christian way’ because of the resurrection.  Then what about all those who died without Christ.  In resurrection, if we accept the biblical view all the dead will be resurrected for judgement, then all those who are cremated, thrown in the water, hanged on the tree (as the Molitonians do—see Bruchko, by Bruce Wilson) or even devoured by the wild animals also will be resurrected?

The problem with Indian Christianity is that while they retain all the sociological values of Hinduism (specifically caste identity), in their cultural and mental make up they want to follow the Western values thinking that any and every western cultural and social values are Christian.  Until they come out from their mental make up; Indian Christians Communities cannot truly be the living body of Christ—the Church.  Several individual members from those communities may be the living members of the body of Christ, but they cannot be identified with Church.

I am sharing my views but not as a First Generation Christian but as a Hindu Christ bhakta. To clear my about this, I am sending my paper ‘My Culture and Identity’, as an attachment.

Sorry for any harsh words from my side.  I don’t mean to hurt any one but that’s is the way I write sometimes.  You can read some of my other writings in this address:  www.paonline.com/jkearns/index.htm

God bless your seva.

Dayanand Bharati.

Dear brother in Christ,

Thank you for your mail to me on culture and identity. I have forwarded it to the Logosfriends group which I moderate. I have invited responses there too. If you choose to, you could become a part of Logosfriends too. We share good Christian material, links, and have some interesting discussions.

To join logosfriends, simply send an email to:
logosfriends-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

You can visit the website of Logosfriends on Yahoo! Groups at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/logosfriends

I personally will try and respond to your mail once I get some time. I found it very interesting, and also very thought-provoking.

Agape!

-Ivor

@@@

This is only a brain storm.  Not final one.  Some references are to be added as foot notes.  Not for publication.

 

Summary

In Ashoka Pillar Sanskrit is not used.  Dayanand: Mere historical evidence alone will not prove about the antiquity of any language in India.  For example in South India Brahmin use a script called Grandam to read and write Sanskrit.  Though we cannot compare Sanskrit with Latin, yet as Latin was used as a ritual language in the (Roman) Church, common people have no access to it. 

If we accept that the Buddhist literatures were available from 3^rd century BC, other scriptures or doctrines, which influenced Buddhism, were also current at that time even before it.  As Buddhism is more of common people’s religion, in stead of writing their literature in Sanskrit or Vaidik language which was mostly Aryan or Brahmins language, they might have written them in other languages which the common people were using.  This does not mean that their literature was not influenced by Aryans literature and doctrine.  Though one can deny the existence of any written Vedic Script before 150 AD, no one can deny that there was no Vedic literature at all before 150 AD.  If Buddhist literature were produced only in Sri Lanka or in some other places other than India, why they were not written in Sinhalas or came to India in their language but only in the language that was familiar from Ashoka’s time?

At least from the 3^rd century AD the Sanskrit influence on Tamil could be traced (say some scholars).  This means the migrated Brahmins to South were speaking that language before that time.  So if Sanskrit influence was on Tamil language around 3^rd AD, probably they might have migrated even before that.  No one can say that the migrated Aryans alone created Vedic scripture and therefore used Sanskrit, which might have influenced Tamil language.  Reformation

DB: If one closely look without much prejudice, he can see that Brahmins were behind most of the reformations that happened in India.  For us reformation means removing some social evils (like Sati, untouchability etc.) and serving the people for their physical need.  But in India reformation is not limited only to the physical need but always begins from the spiritual need.  For example the Upanishads can be said to be the reformation scripture from the Veda, as few Upanishads severely condemn the vedic sacrifice.  All the bhakti movements were also one kind of reformation, which united common people together.  So in India all the reformations concentrated on spiritual level believing that only a regenerated person can effectively implement any kind of social reformation and only a regenerated society alone can carry out its implications.

But as people lived and struggled on existential level these spiritual reformations could not bring much tangible change to help the backward people to come up both spiritually and socially.   That is why in spite of all esoteric knowledge available in India, common’s people religion been more crude.  Most of the reformation that happened in India was at the local level.  All that the Hindu reformers could do was only motivate people on spiritual level. (fn)

Finally what all the reformation has done so far in India?  It is easy to blame the Brahmins or their so called Brahminical system for not allowing the reformation to yield its legitimate fruit in India. 

With Dr. Raju                                                                                                4-10-2000

Dr. Raju Abraham of Masuri said that there is no literary evidence for Sanskrit before 150 A.D.  And suddenly at 7^th century there came lot of Sanskrit literature.  But Hindus claim that their Sanskrit literature was several thousands years before.  In Ashoka Pillar Sanskrit is not used.  All we know from Ashoka pillar is that there existed Buddhist monastic orders.  All we learn about Buddha and his history and teaching came to us from Sri Lanka only after 9^th century.  So how can they claim that Sanskrit literature is several thousands years old?  The claim that Panani the Grammarian arranged Sanskrit in 5^th Century BC is not authentic, as there lived several Panani.  At the maximum we can say that up to the time of 3^rd century BC some Buddhist literature were available.

Dayanand: Mere historical evidence alone will not prove about the antiquity of any language in India.  For example in South India Brahmin use a script called Grandam to read and write Sanskrit.  None but the Brahmins alone and that too now those who spend their time to learn Vedic scripture alone may know about it (I too do not know, though my mother can read Grandam, which she might have probably learnt from her father, who was a Vedic priest).  But we know that the Tamil Brahmins sincerely, from time in memorial were learning the Vedic scripture without violating the tradition.

The important thing that we have to note that The Brahmins were prohibited either to write down Veda or sell Veda.  Most of the Vedic scriptures were belong to respective school viz., each shaka (branch) belong to one Rishi which was orally transformed from one generation to another.  I heard that Vedas were composed in a language called Vaidik, which was only spoken and never written.  So each Rishi family mastered only that portion of Veda, which belongs to their family (shaka).  The important point to note about Sanskrit is that there is a special way to preserve the originality of its literature in a special way that not a iota could be added in it or removed from it.1 That is why the Brahmins were able to faithfully main the oral tradition of the Vedic literature till this day.  This can also be proved by the fact that in several Indian communities even illiterate men and women can recite several (even hundred) poems, which they learnt through oral tradition.  Most of the flock songs which (at least in Tamilnadu) were written recently were often preserved by the village people who cannot read or write.

A sub point here is that most of the Vedic literature and even several sastras were written by the Brahmin for the Brahmins to guide their day to day religious and social life.  All the reference regarding others was in general with their relationship with them.  So there arose no need for the Brahmin to write it down their respective Scripture or branches to share with others.  I don’t say about Dharmasastras (wheres as Sutras were older than Sastras, which were mostly memorized, as they were short forms).  So the lack of any written Sanskrit literature before 150 AD doesn’t mean that neither Sanskrit nor any literature was absent before it.  Why Ashok didn’t use Sanskrit in his rock edition could be answered from this point of view.  Why should he use a script which was used by a section of the people (here the Brahmins) for their religious use, which common people cannot understand.  Apart from this as Buddhism came as a revolt against Brahminism, there was some logic behind it for not using their script.   Though we cannot compare Sanskrit with Latin, yet as Latin was used as a ritual language in the (Roman) Church, common people have no access to it. 

Next point is that no literature in any given society cannot suddenly appear.  Even if we take for granted that the written Sanskrit literatures were came only after or around 150 definitely we should give some concession for the formative period to few hundred years before it. If we accept that the Buddhist literatures were available from 3^rd century BC, other scriptures or doctrines, which influenced Buddhism, were also current at that time even before it.  As Buddhism is more of common people’s religion, in stead of writing their literature in Sanskrit or Vaidik language which was mostly Aryan or Brahmins language, they might have written them in other languages which the common people were using.  This does not mean that their literature was not influenced by Aryans literature and doctrine.  Though one can deny the existence of any written Vedic Script before 150 AD, no one can deny that there was no Vedic literature at all before 150 AD.  Otherwise we have to deny the fact that Buddhism and Jainism rose against the Aryan or Brahminical dharma.  Even if it take for granted that all the Buddhist scripture came from or via Sri Lanka only after 9^th century A.D, we have to agree that most of the Buddhist scripture which came to India or available in India were written in Pali and other languages that was familiar in Ashoka time.  I want to know whether Sinhalins that time (around 9 AD) were speaking only those languages which were used in Ashoka’s pillar or they were speaking Sinhala or some language related to it.  If Buddhist literature were produced only in Sri Lanka or in some other places other than India, why they were not written in Sinhalas or came to India in their language but only in the language that was familiar from Ashoka’s time?

Indians were not particular about keeping historical evidence or documents to prove the antiquity of their faith or scripture.  For example regarding the antiquity of Tamil, they say that their community and language were formed even before the creation of the world (kal thondra man thondra kaalathe, waalodu mun thondriya muutha kudi).  But definitely around first century AD and even before that some Tamil literatures were there.  At least from the 3^rd century AD the Sanskrit influence on Tamil could be traced (say some scholars).  This means the migrated Brahmins to South were speaking that language before that time.  One language can influence on another language only when there were exchange of ideas and views between them over a long period.  So if Sanskrit influence was on Tamil language around 3^rd AD, probably they might have migrated even before that.  No migration will happen all in a sudden that too migrating towards a safety and prosperous place from the existing settlement.  Considering several limitations of that time we can give some consensus that the Ariyan migration to the South was some time around 1^st AD.  No one can say that the migrated Aryans alone created Vedic scripture and therefore used Sanskrit, which might have influenced Tamil language.  Even before their migration they might have their own Scripture in the language with which they came to the South.  And if Sanskrit is the language that influenced Tamil, definitely it could have been there around 1^st Ad even before it—either in written form or in oral tradition.  Based on these rational argument, though one cannot prove the existence of Sanskrit before 1^st AD, those who deny its existence can do it without giving any rational thought about—may be due to their personal prejudice.

Reformation

DB: If one closely look without much prejudice, he can see that Brahmins were behind most of the reformations that happened in India.  Even there was a Brahmin behind Ambetkar.  Even in my personal life, I was a pro-dalit in my spirit as I always support for any kind of emancipation for them.  But the main problem in India is that most of the time those reformed dalits or other backward people do not want to go back to their own people to life them up from their wretched condition.  If at all those who want to do it, always do it to gain some thing personally for them and not for the backward people.  To say in other wards like the Brahmins of the past, to have their personal gain these leaders among the backward people want their people to remain as backward so that they can use them for their vested interest.  But those Brahmins and other forward caste people at least sincerely done something for them.  Of course there are few exception among the leaders of the backward community who are sincerely serving them.

Dr. Raju.  But from where the Brahmins got their inspiration even to do those reformations.  Like Raja Ram Mohan  Ray they got that spirit only from the Christian Missionaries.  The history is the evidence for this.  Why we don’t have any record of any kind of reformation before the arrival of British and that too particularly Missionaries.

DB:  The problem here is that we always compare all kinds of reformation that took place in India only from the western point of view.  For us reformation means removing some social evils (like Sati, untouchability etc.) and serving the people for their physical need.  But in India reformation is not limited only to the physical need but always begins from the spiritual need.  For example the Upanishads can be said to be the reformation scripture from the Veda, as few Upanishads severely condemn the vedic sacrifice.  Gita can be said to be the reformation scripture as it opened the way of salvation to the common people which was complicated both by the vedic sacrifice and Upanishadic knowledge.  All the bhakti movements were also one kind of reformation, which united common people together.  So in India all the reformations concentrated on spiritual level believing that only a regenerated person can effectively implement any kind of social reformation and only a regenerated society alone can carry out its implications.

But as people lived and struggled on existential level these spiritual reformations could not bring much tangible change to help the backward people to come up both spiritually and socially.   That is why in spite of all esoteric knowledge available in India, common’s people religion was more crude.  For example whether Buddhism and Jainism (Sramanas) were reformers or revolted against the then existed Brahminical religion, one way they aimed in emancipating common people both spiritually and socially.  But as they gave much importance to regeneration and could not address much to the existential problem of common people, their influence was reduced again by the raising Brahminical tactics (this is also controversial.  While some argue that people like Sankara was the main reason for the revival of Hinduism at the cost of Sramanas, others argue that Buddhism ebbed away from India, as it was naturally observed within Hinduism).

Now coming back to the question why there was no reformation before the arrival of Missionaries in India.  Already we addressed this question to some extent.  Most of the reformations that happened in India were at the local level.  First of all we have to accept the fact that India was not one country politically before the Britishers.  Though the Muslims ruled vast area of India, yet they cannot give any political unity to India.  Above all during the time of Mugal rule the Hindus lived with tension and struggle with the Mugals.  All those who talk about the Hindu India should at least give a concession of the Mugal period from 12^th century A.D.

All the reformations, which the Missionaries started, managed to implement because of the political power and infra structure that was available at their time.  At least because of their one law and one administration the British administration could effectively implement the law passed in favour of such reformations (like sati), where prior to the British as there was no single administration and each small States were warring with each other for their survival no reformation could be effectively implemented.  All that the Hindu reformers could do was only motivate people on spiritual level.(fn)

Finally what all the reformation has done so far in India?  It is easy to blame the Brahmins or their so called Brahminical system for not allowing the reformation to yield its legitimate fruit in India.  In the name of reformation what these westerners taught to the Indian was to rebel against their social and cultural values—imagining that all the social and cultural values in India were Brahminical—which when failed to find the targeted enemy (the Brahmins or their system) was not the only reason for their wretchedness, they began to fight among themselves (this we can clearly see in South India, particularly in Tamilnadu).  Giving a reasonable place for the Brahminical system for the reason for the backwardness of Indian society, without aiming for a spiritual reformation (what I call as regeneration) all these reformation at social and cultural level will never bring the expected result.  It may superficially change some worldview of the people, but will keep all the core problems as they are.

Masuoorie, October 10, 2000.  This dialouge took place during lunch time and tea break on October 4 & 5^th at Dheradhun during my class with SHS.

Mahabahrata says that a Brahmin is not a Brahmin if he lacks the brahminical qualities

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To                                                                    Erode, September 23, 1999.

The Editor,

CWA News,

14, Balfour Road, Chennai-600 010.

Dear Sir,

Greetings!

Truth hurts,  lie cheats; half truth destroys and not telling the whole truth disappoints.  This is what I felt after reading the article (Tamil) ‘Hindu Christ bhaktas’ (CkÕ ¡±vÕ TdRoLs), by Joyce Jawahar in CWA News letter of July 1999, page two.  Even though Dr. Thangaswami in his explanation in September 1999 issue (page 2) was right to mention about the lack of proper explanation about my views led to several misunderstanding (LhÓûWûVf ÑÚdLUôL GÝRúYi¥V§ÚkRRôÛm, £XYtû\j ùR°YôL ®[d¡ GÝRôûUVôÛm CkR CPoTôÓ úS¬hPÕ), either in July issue or in September issue you could have mentioned about my book which might give proper explanation about the issues which I raised.

First of all as you have mentioned (CqYûUl©u RûXYo RVô]kR TôW§) I am not the leader of any group or movement, though I encourage spontaneous expansion of the Kingdom of God and help and guide few Christ bhaktas in this regard.  Again this is not an Organization (AûUl×) which is functioning under my leadership.  Rather ours is a movement (CVdLm) which expands spontaneously.

Second: ‘from deeksha (baptism) to funeral they use coconut, fruit, pawn, betal, kumb, use bell, blow conch, chant Christian mantras’ (§ÚØÝdÏ ØRp, Yôr®u Cߧ FoYXm YûW, úReLôn, TZm, ùYt±ûX, TôdÏ, ÏmTm ûYjÕ, U¦ A¥jÕ, NeÏ F§, ¡±vRY Uk§WeLû[ KÕ¡u\]o), says July issue.  But as far as I remember I never told this.  Only in explaining how some time when I give guru deeksha (baptism) use certain Hindu forms like ‘puurna kumb, flower, akshata (yellow rice to bless the bhakta) etc.’  Here also there is no uniformity and I adopt the form according to the need and culture of the region and people involved.  But the author  stretched it to all the areas.   Of course though I didn’t mention other areas, as far as I am concerned there is no wrong in using all these in auspicious occasions as Christians in Tamilnadu are using them in their marriage.  We never use any ‘Christian mantra‘, as there exist no such mantras.  Of course we use Bible verse in Sanskrit in certain rituals.

Third point: ‘Hindu culture and Christian religion’, is mingled together (CkÕd LXôfNôWØm, ¡±vRY URØm … ©u²l ©ûQk§ÚlTûR Sôm LôQXôm).  Though the word ‘Christian religion’, is a concession for the Christians to understand their faith (we never use the word Christian religion for our faith in any way) which you have used, ours is not a blend of ‘Christian religion and Hindu culture’.  Space won’t permit me to explain this further.  To use our term we are following the ‘Dharma of Christ’, which is not ‘Christianity’.  And ‘Dharma‘, in its original meaning and our understanding is not religion.

Fourth point: ‘The experiences which he had undergone in his ministry in North led him to chose this form of life (Hindu Christ bhakta).  The main reason for this is the suffering which they have undergone in their society (community) because of name change, culture change etc. (AkRl T¦jR[j§p HtThP AàTYmRôu AYûW CkR YôrdûL Øû\dÏ AûZjRf ùNu\Õ. ùTVo Uôt\m, LXôfNôW Uôt\m B¡VYt±tÏh TÓ¡u\YoLs, Rm NØRôVj§úX AûP¡u\ ÕuTeLÞm ùRôpûXLÞúU CRtÏ ØÝ ØRt LôWQm). It is not because of some suffering I am promoting these principles.  After years of thinking and experience I am implementing these principles as our birth right and not to avoid any suffering or persecution.

Fifth point is that I never served through YWAM or O.M, but only through F.M.P.B in the North.

Regarding the full time work I think that I mentioned that among the educated people it is better to work as a tent maker.  If I remember correctly I said that there is a place for full time ministry in certain areas (like among the tribals) but there also a tent maker is a better option.

I cannot understand these words: AYoLs(¡±vRYoLs ApXôRYoLs) ¡±vÕûY HtßdùLôiÓ, AYWÕ úTôRû]Lû[ ®Úm©]ôÛmáP, CkRl ùTVoUôt\m, LXôfNôWUôt\m B¡VYtû\ ®ÚmTôUp ©uYôe¡l úTô¡u\]o (Even though the non-Christians accept Jesus Christ and His teaching, as they don’t like this name change and culture change, they go back).  What is meant by this ‘go back’ or to use a Christian technical term ‘back slidden’ (©uYôeÏRp)?  If accepting Jesus Christ and following His teaching is essential for a follower of Christ, then how not accepting some European culture and Christian tradition can be termed as ‘going back’?  After the non-Christians accept Jesus Christ and follow His teaching, not joining the Christian community or some Church is termed as ‘going back’, then it is a poor understanding of the Gospel.  We are not leaving our Hindu community, society and culture to join non-Hindu community, society and culture.  There is no ‘going back’ as we are not ready to come to join Christian community.  We remain where we are.  So it is not proper to use such term as ‘go back’.

Ck§Vô®p ¡±vRYoL°u Gi¦dûL êuß NRÅRUôLd Lôú]ôm. ‘Ck§Vô ¡±vRYoLÞdúL’ Guß TX BiÓL[ôLdáßm SmUôp Nô§dL Ø¥V®pûXúV? Sm úTôRû]«p GeÏ RY±ú]ôm? Hu RY±ú]ôm? GlT¥jRY±ú]ôm? GuTûYúV CYWÕ ®]ôdLs.  (Christians are not even 3% in India.  ‘India is for Christ’, we say since last several years.  But didn’t achieve this.  Where we failed in our teaching?  Why we failed?  How we failed? These are his (Dayanand’s) questions).

            I am afraid this misrepresents my views.  I only said that since last  20 years or more Christians are saying that within ten years India will become predominantly a Christian country.  No where I identify myself with this Christian’s agenda of winning India for Christianity or to make India a Christian country.  In fact I don’t want to see my country to become a ‘Christian country’, like several European countries are called as ‘Christian country’.  Only in the context of not communicating the gospel properly I raised these questions of ‘Where we failed, why we failed and how we failed (in communicating the gospel)’ and not to increase the percentage of Christians in India.

About the 3% of Christians, I personally have no faith in increasing the percentage of Christians in India.  What I raised is about  the ‘claim made by Christians to win whole India for Christianity before the end of the century (CkR èt\ôiÓ CߧdÏs Ck§Vô JÚ ¡±vRY SôPôÏm)’ whereas they are not even 3% after all their attempts so far.  So they have to think where they failed—not to increase the percentage of their community in India, but even their attempt to convert people from one community to another in the name of religious conversion.  Finally one question: ‘If Christians live as Christians within a few years we will achieve'(¡±vRYu ¡±vRY]ôL YôrkRôp Cuàm £X BiÓL°p Sôm Nô§jÕ ®ÓúYôm), says Jawahar.  But what is that achievement which Christians want to achieve by living as Christians?  Conversion of whole India to ‘Christianity’, ?

Coming to Dr. Thangaswami’s one comment: ‘Though we are not in agreement with several points and rituals of what Dayanand shared, yet as some of his points will awaken traditional Christians we published them (AYo á±V GpXôd LÚjÕdLÞm, AàxPôQeLÞm (rituals) GeLÞdÏ EPuTô¥pûX ùV²àm, AYo á±V £X ùNn§Ls úRYôXVjÕdÏfùNuß BWô§dÏm UW×d ¡±vRYoLÞdÏ ®¯léhÓm ϱl×dL[ôL CÚdLdLiúPôm)’. I too agree with him that in a short article no one can exactly present  what I shared for more than two hours.  I too at the end of my sharing said that it is difficult for me to share precisely about all my experiences as a Hindu Christ bhakta within 45 minutes followed by a discussion.  But it is my humble opinion that instead of saying generally that he/(or all) is/are not agreeing with me to most of my points and rituals, he should have mentioned specifically some areas and try to explain why he is disagreeing.   In order to give information to the traditional Christians about us, I feel that the content of the article though appreciated some of our efforts, misrepresented me in few areas. 

In between the lines I feel that Dr. Thangaswami is trying to convince or defend his position for publishing the article in July issue rather than boldly acknowledging the fact  though controversial in order to challenge certain views of traditional Christian the CWS News letter published Dayanand’s views as I clearly told in my sharing that we don’t want any recognition from the Christians or Church for what we are—Hindu Christ bhaktas. I even told that we don’t want the Christians to know about our existence and in that context I quoted a Tamil poem from Naladiyar (ùLôm×[RodÏ IkÕ, ϧûWdÏl TjÕ, ùYiL¬dÏ B«Wm úYiÓúU UôúRúLs, Ym×ùN¬ ¾e¡]o Li¦p TPôÕ çW ¿eÏRp SpX ùS±).  So I don’t expect any Christian to accept my views.  To one gentleman’s question about my views and practice which according to him is against the existing tradition of the church and Christians, I told, ‘why should we bother about Christians?  To day before God and all your presence I make a solemn  promise that we will never come and disturb your church.’  I shared at Dr. Thangaswami’s house not expecting any Christians or church to agree with us.  We have noting to do with Christians or denominational church in India.  At the same time we want to challenge the Indian Christians about their life and purpose (to achieve something) and that is why I wrote that book ‘Living Water and Indian Bowl‘(ISPCK, Delhi, 1997).  Of course my main aim of writing that book is to warn Hindu Christ bhaktas about the snares of following Christians and the church. 

Any how I learnt one more lesson:  in future I shall be more careful in accepting any invitation from any Christian group to share about my views.  I don’t want to say ‘sorry if I hurt you,’ because I know Truth always hurts.  Better face the Truth rather than not telling the whole Truth which is telling only half truth which in turn will destroy everything.  Personally I appreciate Dr. Thangaswami’s opinion and views about us, which he also shared at the close of the meeting.  But now he too, I think might have learnt a good lesson from the opposition for publishing this article.  We cannot convince Christians and we don’t want to convince them.  Individual Christians may agree with us, but Christianity as a community and Church as an Organized Religious Institution won’t and need not.  So better keep friendship with those individual Christians and never try to convince the Church is my policy.  Thank you.

Yours sincerely

Dayanand Bharati.

Note:  After I returned from North only today I saw both July and September issue and hence the delay in writing this response.

                                                CkÕ ¡±vÕ TdRoLs

CWA News.   ¡±vRYo ®¯l×. ¡±vRYo SpYôrÜf NeL ùY°ÂÓ. UXo 7, CRr 8, _øûX, 1999.

CkÕdLû[ Sôm A±úYôm, ¡±vRYoLû[ Sôm A±úYôm.  B]ôp CYoLú[ô CkÕ ¡±vÕ TdRoLs.  ùTVûWd úLh¡u\ ùTôÝÕ, Øt±Ûm úYßThP CÚ ùNôtLs CûQkÕ ©u²l ©ûQk§ÚlTûR Sôm LôQXôm ùTVoUhÓUpX; CkÕd LXôfNôWØm, ¡N±vRY URØm áPjRôu.  CYoLs ¡±vÕ®u TdRoLs. AYÚûPV úTôRû]Lû[f £WúUtùLôiÓ ùNVXôtßTYoLs. B]ôp CkÕdLs. CúVÑ¡±vÕûYj R®W ©\ ùRnYeLû[ ®Xd¡®hÓ ¡±vÕ TdRoL[ôL YôrTY¬Ls. B]ôp TWmTûW TWmTûWVôL F±lúTô], ReLÞdúL E¬ûUVô] Ck§Vd LXôfNôWjûR ARôYÕ CkÕ TZdLYZdLeLû[ Uôt±d ùLôs[ BVjRUô«pûX. Uôt±dùLôsYÕ úRûYVt\Õ GuTÕ CYoLs YôRm. ùTiLs ùSt±«úX §XLªhÓ RûX Y¡h¥úX ÏeÏUm ChÓd ùLôs[j RYßY§pûX.  §ÚØÝdÏ ØRp, Yôr®u Cߧ FoYXm YûW, úReLôn, TZm, ùYt±ûX, TôdÏ, ÏmTm ûYjÕ, U¦ A¥jÕ, NeÏ F§, ¡±vRY Uk§WeLû[ KÕ¡u\]o. NmUQm ChÓ AUokÕ, LWeLû[d ál©, Rª¯ûNVôp ¡±vÕûYl Tô¥l úTôtßYÕ, úLhúTôûW ùTnU\dLf ùNnÕ ®Óm.

CqYûUl©u RûXYo RVô]kR TôW§. CYo ©WôUQo ÏXj§úX ©\kÕ BuÁLj RôLm EûPVYWônl TpúYß NUV úYReLû[d Ltß LûWLiP©u ¡\vÕúY EiûUVô] ùRnYm G] A±kÕ ùLôiPôo. ¡±vÕûYj RUÕ ùRnYUôLd ùLôiPôo Guß ùNôpYûR®P ¡±vÕ RmûU ºP]ôL Htßd ùLôiPôo Guß ùNôpY§p ùTÚU¡rÜ ùLôs¡u\ôo. 10 BiÓLÞdÏ úUXôL F.M.P.B, Y.W.A.M, O.M, ØR­V AûUl×L°u Yô«XôL YP Uô¨XeL°p StùNV§ U¦Vôt±]ôo. AkRl T¦jR[j§p HtThP AàTYmRôu AYûW CkR YôrdûL Øû\dÏ AûZjRf ùNu\Õ. ùTVo Uôt\m, LXôfNôW Uôt\m B¡VYt±tÏh TÓ¡u\YoLs, Rm NØRôVj§úX AûP¡u\ ÕuTeLÞm ùRôpûXLÞúU CRtÏ ØÝ ØRt LôWQm. ©uYÚY]ûYúV CYoL[Õ úLôhTÓLs. 1. Sôu JÚ CkÕ, B]ôp ¡±vÕ TdRu. 2. Sôu ¡±vRYu ApX. 3. Sôu ¡±vRYoL°u GkR NûTdÏm ùNpY§pûX. 4. ØÝúSW F¯Vm ùNnYûRj R®ojÕ HRôYÕ úYûX ùNnV úYiÓm.

TÜX¥Vô¬u úTôRû]L[VLÞm AYÚdÏj ÕûQ ¨u\] (1 ùLôÚ 9:22, 7:18-20; LXôj§Vo 5:6, 6:15; úVôYôu 6:37). GkR JÚ LXôfNôWØm EVokRúRô, ¨WkRWUô]úRô Auß. B]ôp St ùNn§ûVd ùLôÓlTúRôÓ, RUÕ, LXôfNôWjûRÙm CXYN CûQlTôLd ùLôÓlTRôp, ¡±vÕ Gu\ Av§TôWj§uÁÕ LhPm úLôQXôLd LhPlTÓ¡\Õ. ¿¬p ¿kÕm Áu Tô­p ¿kR Ø¥VôúR.

¡±vRYoL[ô¡V Sôm ©uTtßm LXôfNôWm Gu]? Auß StùNn§ûVd ùLôiÓ YkR úRôUô, úWôU SôL¬LjûRúVô, ¡úWdL SôL¬LjûRúVô SmÁÕ §¦dL®pûX. B]ôp ©u]o YkR IúWôl©VoLs Ñ£ú`júRôÓ SmLÏd ùLôÓjR úUpSôhÓd LXôfNôWUpXYô SmûU A¥ûU TÓj§ ®hPÕ! AúR LXôfNôWm Cuß ¡±vRYoLs ApXôRYo ÁÕ Ñ®ú`júRôÓ §¦dLlTÓ¡u\ ùTôÝÕ, AYoLs ¡±vÕûY HtßdùLôiÓ, AYWÕ úTôRû]Lû[ ®Úm©]ôÛmáP, CkRl ùTVoUôt\m, LXôfNôWUôt\m B¡VYtû\ ®ÚmTôUp ©uYôe¡l úTô¡u\]o.

Ck§Vô®p ¡±vRYoL°u Gi¦dûL êuß NRÅRUôdL Lôú]ôm. ‘Ck§Vô ¡±vRYoLÞdúL’ Guß TX BiÓL[ôLdáßm SmUôp Nô§dL Ø¥V®pûXúV? Sm úTôRû]«p GeÏ RY±ú]ôm? Hu RY±ú]ôm? GlT¥jRY±ú]ôm? GuTûYúV CYWÕ ®]ôdLs.

Cuß SmªûPúV úUúXôe¡ ¨tTÕ IúWôl©VWôp úTô§dLlThP URUô? ApXÕ LXôfNôWUô? ùUô¯, CûN, ùTVo, EQÜ, EûP, BWôRû] Øû\ûU (liturgy) Cû\«Vp (theology) CûYùVpXôm ©\Wôp §¦dLlThP]. Cuß SmûU Sôm U\kÕ ®húPôm. TûZVûYLs J¯kÕúTô«] GpXôm קRô«] Guß ùNôpÛm SmªPm _ô§ úYßTôÓ, YWRhNûQ, SûLShÓ úUôLm J¯Vd LôúQôm. ùY°lTûPVô]ûYLû[ UhÓm Uôt±d ùLôs[ôUp U]jûRÙm Uôt±d ùLôsúYôm.

7, 8 RûXûUû\L[ôLl TZ¡®hP CkRd LXôfNôWjûR C² SmUôp Uôt\ Ø¥VôÕ. AúR úYû[«p Au×, AolT¦l× B¡VYtû\Ùm ûLdùLôsúYôm. ¡±vRYu ¡±vRY]ôL YôrkRôp Cuàm £X BiÓL°p Sôm Nô§jÕ ®ÓúYôm.

‘LXôfNôWjûRl ©¥jÕd ùLôi¼oLs ¡±vÕûY ®hÓ ®h¼oLs. SôeLs ¡±vÕûY UhÓm ©¥jÕd ùLôiúPôm’, Guß SmûU ®U£¬dÏm CkR CkÕ ¡±vRY TdRoLÞdÏ Sm T§p Gu]?

                        —    _ônv _Yao.

ClT¥Ùm £X TdRoLs.

¡±vÕûY Y¯TÓm TXRWlThP ÏÝ®]ûWl Tt± Sm Au× YôNLoLs Aû]YÚm ùR¬k§ÚdL úYiÓm GuTRtLôLjRôu ‘CkÕ ¡±vÕ TdRoLs’ Gu\ LhÓûWûV 1999 _øûX ‘¡±vRYo ®¯l×’ CR¯p ùY°«húPôm.

Sm Eßl©]oL°p £XÚdÏ AiûU«p, CkÕ-¡±vÕ TdRoLs ÏÝ®u RûXYo §Ú RVô]kj TôW§ AYoLû[j RtùNVXôLf Nk§dÏm Yônl×d ¡ûPjRÕ. AlùTôÝÕ AjRûXYo Ck§Vl TiTôÓLû[Ùm UW× Øû\Lû[Ùm ûL®PôUp ReLs ÏÝ®]o GqYôß ¡±vÕ TdRoL[ôL ApXÕ A¥VôWôL YôrkÕ YÚ¡u\]o GuTûR C²Õ GÓjÕûWjRôo. AYo á±V GpXôd LÚjÕdLÞm, AàxPôQeLÞm (rituals) GeLÞdÏ EPuTô¥pûXùV²àm, AYo á±V £X ùNn§Ls úRYôXVjÕdÏf ùNuß BWô§dÏm UW×d ¡±vRYoLÞdÏ ®¯léhÓm ϱl×dL[ôL CÚdLdLiúPôm. ClT¥Ùm £X TdRoLs CÚd¡u\]o GuTûR Sôm ùR¬kÕ ùLôs[ úYiPôUô?

‘CkÕ-¡±vÕ TdRoLs’ Gu\ LhÓûW AkRd ÏÝ®]¬u ùLôsûLûVl TWlTúYô, AYtû\ Sôm Htßd ùLôs[úYiÓùUuß LÚ§úVô ùY°«P®pûX. AÕ VôÚûPV U]ûRVôYÕ ×iTÓj§«ÚkRôp ARtLôL YÚkÕ¡uú\ôm. LhÓûWûVf ÑÚdLUôL GÝRúYi¥V§ÚkRRôÛm £XYtû\j ùR°YôL ®[d¡ GZRôûUVôÛm CkR CPolTôÓ úS¬hPÕ.

‘CkR-¡±vÕ TdRoLs’ RôeLs ‘¡±vRYoLs’ Guß AûZdLlTP ®ÚmTô®hPôÛm, ‘¡±vÕ TdRoLs’ (Christ’s devotees) Gu\ûZdLlTP ®Úmס\ôoLs. C§­ÚkÕ AYoLs CúVÑ ¡±vÕ ReLÞûPV BiPYÚm CWhNLÚUôn CÚd¡u\ôo GuTûR Øtßm Jl×dùLôs¡u\ôoLs GuTÕ ùR°Yônj ùR¬¡u\Õ ApXYô?

§ÚYô[o ú_ôNl ®L\o AYoLs CdLhÓûW«u NôoTôL TX IVeLû[Ùm ®]ôdLû[Ùm GÝl©, ®¬Yô] L¥Rm Juß Gݧ«ÚkRôoLs. AYoLÞdÏm Su±!

      –Ñ£LWu ReLNôª, ¡±vRYo ®¯l×, UXo 7, CRr 10, ùNlPmTo, 1999, TdLm-2.

Dr. Thangasami’s response:

October 27, 1999.

Dear Sri Dayanand Bharati,

I read your letter addressed to the editor of the CWA news.  Thank you.

The article was written primarily to inform our readers about the existence of the “Yesu Bhaktas”.  We aimed at an ideal, that the conventional church-enthusiastic Christians must know and accept the followers of Christ even outside the church.  True our push backfired and we had to mollify the situation.  We wrote the article only for the benefit of the readers and not to procure appreciation or authentication for your group.  You follow Christ in your own Indian way without succumbing to the western trappings that have been imported from 16th to the 20th centuries.  You don’t require recognition or acceptance from others.  Your stand in this regard is right.

It was fortunate that we could meet you at Kodaikanal and it was gracious of you to talk to us both at Kodai and Chennai.  You don’t call yourself a leader- seldom a true leader calls himself one- but we consider that you are representing your group ably and appropriately and therefore we consider you the leader.  Please allow us this concession.

It is generally becoming an impression that many Hindus consider Christianity as unsuitable to them because of the western lifestyle that has been adopted by Indian Christians.  Through the various terms such as culture and manners (language, the ways festivals are celebrated, dress, wedding styles, names etc.) the Indian Christians have unnecessarily adopted western style and thus have estranged themselves from their Hindu brethren.  Whereas Jesus’ important teachings are love and harmony only these externals dominate.  Forms and formalities can vary from place to place according to local customs and traditions. Failure on the part of traditional Indian Christians to understand this blocks many who would like to come to Jesus Christ.  This is our concern which we wanted to project in the article.  When we deal with people particularly with those who are afraid of new ideas and different models we face problems.  Sometimes we use the reverse gear as an interim strategy.  However in all my dealings I try to ensure sincerity and transparency avoiding deception and prevarication- all the same I don’t claim infallibility or perfection.  But the duty of having to correct and educate the people cannot be abdicated.

At this time of our historical existence as Christians in India- (6th or 7th generations) we are hard put to throw away what we have inherited- that is why I mean by saying “AYoLs á±V…”.  Kindly bear with us.

To the main objector I have lent two books 1. Yours- Living Waters and the India Bowl, 2. Herbert Hoeffer’s- Churchless Christianity.  I hope he has read them.

I value your friendship and prize you as a partner in our common search and practice of Truth.

With thanks and warmest regards,

Yours sincerely,

Susikaran Thangasami.

P.S.

Thnaks for the papers you are sending from time to time.  Pl. Continue.

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Q.: Do you believe that God could save the people by other means of Faith other than yours?

An. Who am I to restrict the hands of God?

Q.  But does not the Bible have an ‘exclusive’ claim as ‘there is no other Name under the Sun above the earth is given other than the Name of Jesus to save the people’.

A. Yes.

Q. Do you believe that the Bible is the Word of God.

A. Yes.  But it depends upon your understanding and interpretation of the term ‘Word of God’.

Q. Then what is your ‘understanding’ and ‘interpretation’ of the Bible as the Word of God?

A.  God took the initiative to Reveal Himself through human categories.  The Holy Spirit inspired people—who are human beings in every sense—to express that Revelation in ‘Human’ means based on their PERSONAL Faith and Experience.  So the ‘human categories’, ‘human means’, ‘personal faith and experiences’ should be considered in their given context for the ‘understanding and interpretation’ of the Bible as the Word of God.

A. Simply you have explained your mind.  But this is not the proper answer to our question.  Can you say in one word (‘yes’ or ‘No’ ) that you Trust the Bible as the Word of God and what all written there is going to accomplish.

A. For me even the word ‘yes’ or ‘no’ is a human category which does not recognize and couldn’t express the mystery of God.  However if I have to use the word ‘yes’ and ‘no’ in expressing my conviction, then each overlaps the other.  (Immediately don’t quote the verse ‘say yes to yes and no to no.  There the context is not about what we are talking.  Here we are talking about the mystery of God and there Jesus talk about our morality).  While my faith and experience say ‘yes’ the Reason say ‘no’, because of the ‘human means’ (language, categories etc.)

Q. Then you are a ‘liberal’ holding pluralistic view about God, salvation and the Bible.

A. Well, it is better to be a ‘liberal’ and be a bhakta of Christ begging for His mercy depending upon His Grace, to be some other entity and become self-righteous.

–Mahari, Rewa (M.P.), 30-3-1997., 12.10 p.m.

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On November 25^th at Ralph’s house, Russ mentioned about the comments of one top leader and theologian of Assemblies of God Church saying: ‘The writings and attempts by H.L. Richard and his friends in contextualizing the gospel will definitely in the long run will help to reduce the communal tension that previles in India.  If their efforts succeeds, within 20 to 50 years Christianity will be accepted as part of India’s culture and civilization giving up its western identity.’  When he asked my comments about this, I said:

It is encouraging to hear such comments from Christian circle.  But the truth in it is that though few Christian leaders and theologians and Mission leaders agree with us in principle, yet they cannot implement their view either in their life or ministry or even in their teaching.  That theologian can pass that comment to you, but he cannot teach the same to his students in his class or share in the congregation in his church. 

Immediately Joyanna, Ralph’s wife said, ‘There is a point in what Swamiji says.  He can say this to any Westerners.  But when it comes to Indians he cannot share with this much oppeness.’

Then I continued, ‘what I say may seem too much criticism about Christians.  But let me quote one example.  When I asked three top Christian Leaders to write a Foreword to my book Living Water…, all the three refused.  First I sent one letter to Dr. B.V. Subbamma as she was the President of Vibhu Society as well to some extent agree with us (at least when she was in our meetings), requesting her to write a Foreword to my book.  But the only response came by telegramme was: ‘Sorry.  Not acceptable.’  And she didn’t even send any letter giving any further reason for her refusal.  Then I wrote a letter to Rev. Vasanth Raj Albert of Church Growth….  He also knew me in person as well as through my writings in TAMAT.  But no response came from him.  Finally when I met Mr. L.T.Jayachandran, who highly respects our approach and agree with us in person I said that both Dr. Subbamma and Rve. Albert refused to write the foreword.  ‘I can ask Dr. Devadasan of FMPB.  Though he will agree with me what I say in the book, yet as a leader of FMPB, he will face much hard time once he writes any foreword to such a book.  Now as you know me to some extent, why cannot you write a foreword.’  For this Mr. L.T.J. said, ‘I am also in the same position like Dr. Devadasan and other Christian leaders.   Though I agree with you what you say in the book, I cannot openly come out  in supporting your views by writing a foreword.  This shows what some Christian leaders believe as right in person but cannot come out openly because of the fear of opinion from the Christian Community both in India and outside.’

Regarding the communal hoarmony which our approach will promote between Christians and Hindus in next few years, I said on 26^th to Russ that the communal tension in India is much between Hindus and Muslims.  And the present tension between Hindus and Christians are the outcome of blowing out of proportion by the Hindu Fundamentalists who are targeting all the minorities in India.  ‘But what I am doing is not to promote any Communal harmony.  I am still a part of Hindu Community and I don’t find any real threat to communal harmony by the Christian activities.  In fact we Hindus have communal tension among us because of the caste factor which is sustained by the political parties to achieve their vested interest.  Similarly some Christians are saying that in order to avoid persecution I want to keep my Hindu Identity.  But the fact in it is that first of all Christians have a wrong understanding about persecution.  Neither Jesus nor Paul or the bible encourages us to go after martyrdom or to face persecution.  In fact we are persecuted by our own people because of their misunderstanding about us as happened with Keshave and me in his village.  Above all, while the Christian have to face persecution only from Hindus, if at all they are persecuted, we are persecuted by both Hindus and Christians.’

Here I want to add my comments which I didn’t share with Russ.  In his recent press briefing after Pope’s visit the Arch Bishop of Delhi said that except few strange incidents there is no persecution in India against Christian community.  Of course the Graham Striens’ incident and Fr. Aruldass killing is really a sad and shame to our Hindu values.  But the way the Christians, particularly the evangelical circle blow these incidents out of proportion in order to create either a feeling of in security among the Christians mind or to project to the western Christian communities and Church to gain their sympathy as well as (financial) support is not a good sign, if they really want to promote communal harmony in India.

If the Christians want to live for their principle against all kinds of persecution, they should do it for the sake of that principle and not in the name of minority.  True communal harmony will exit when we all, irrespective of our respective communal alligiance oppose all kinds of persecution against minorities anywhere in the world and particularly in India.  When the Kashmir Pandits are persecuted by the Muslim militants, did the church in India ever raised her voice against them?  When the fundamental right to worship in public is prohibited to the minorites in several Muslim countries as well Christians are massacard there, why not the Indian Christians never consider about it?  In the name of minority if they want to join with the Muslim to oppose Hindu fundamentalism, they as majority as world Christian community should equally condemn religious and communal persecution on other minorities every where in the world.  While Hindus have to think and workout for their National Identity only in India, Christians who claim as their faith transcents all kinds of regional, national and communal barriers and boundaries should raise their voice as a world community and not just a minority in India.

Though the murder of Graham strines and his sons are a tragedy, yet the way Indian Christian responded even quickly publishing a book (Burnt Alive), without analysing other factors behind such incidents will never help to promote communal harmony in India.

On 26^th in his interview Russ said, ‘you are highly critical about Church and Christians in India.’  What is their criticism and comments about you?’  ‘I don’t know.  They have every right to equally critical about me.  But as I don’t have much contact with them, I don’t know what they say about me.’ 

I can be easily blamed for this that  I am not ready to listen what they want to say about me.  But my feeling is that how many Christians ever take my view seriously?  Very few people in Christian circle knew about me.   And few, who ever agree with me think that I should move much closer to them and even say that I am part of Indian Church in the sense as the body of Christ.  Dr. Subbamma, in the January Conference held at Chennai in 1999 23^rd (with Dr. Hoffer) openly in her sharing told, ‘as our dear Christ bhakta says that he don’t need us is wrong’, commenting to my response in the previous evening planning meeting where in responding Hoffer’s question about what I am doing when I said that we want to keep a distance away from Indian Christians.  Those who in principle may agree that my basic conviction as Hindu Christ bhakta will never go with the present Indian Churches.  But they still want to store the new wine in the old skin-bottle.  If this is the comment and attitude of those who know us, what would be the comments and criticism of those Christians who cannot understand me?

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                                                With Shisya’s Team

(The following are the extraction which I recorded in my class at Balasore for the Shisya’s Team from February 6-8, 1999).

 We are making history.  We should also learn from history.  As we are learning from history, to day we are also making history from which the future generations will also learn from us.  So what we think and do is much more important as we are in the process of making history.  What we think and do is not for the future but only for the present.  At the same time what we do now will become a history for the future generation to learn so we must be careful in all the areas of our life and not only in the ministry.  Learning from the past history what ever we are thinking and doing at present will make a history in future.  So we have a responsibility towards the future generation.

To make a future history, we should be careful in which area :–  ‘We should create new thing, we should improve our society, we should improve our character, do some extraordinary thing to make history, implement properly what we learnt, we should enter in politics, adopt new things according to the need of the time, do social service like Mother Theresa, –these were the brain storms from the students. 

We should keep both our eye and ear open so that we may know what is going on around us at present to make history, I said.  Without keeping proper contact with the incidents which are happening around us, we cannot even implement what all the things which we want to do.  We often say what should we do considering the present situation?  But without knowing about our present situation, how can we even decide what should we do?

We say there is lot of disturbance around us to day.  But only when it affects us personally then alone we think that there are severe problems.  But those who are not affected by it are not going to consider it even as a problem.   As the Christians are attacked and churches are demolished then Christians begin to say that there is problem and immediately the word ‘considering the present situation, we must keep a low profile’.  But in Serbia ethnic Albenians Muslims are fighting with Serbeian Christians, but we never consider it as a problem.  When Muslims and Hindus attack each other that time even for the sake of Muslims as minority, the Christians never taken this much procession and demonstration in the name of minority right.  Of course few Leaders have voiced their protection, but most of them were politicians and those few Christians who raised their voice were liberal (Catholic) Christians but most of the time the so called evangelical kept quite.  But when their interest is affected, suddenly they awaken and say that there is persecution against Christians.

Well whatever may be the present situation, particularly for the Christians in India, as believers in the Sovereignty of God, Trusting in His totality we need not be disturbed much as every thing is under God’s Control.  Without His permission nothing is happening in this world and particularly in a believer’s life.  Does this mean that burning of Graham and his two sons and raping of Nuns is also allowed by God?  While acknowledging the fact that everything is under God’s control, yet we have to remember the fact that God has given free will for men to decide.  The Sovereignty of God and the free will of men are both a Reality and Paradox.  If everything is under the control of God then, how He can allow all these to happen and if men can do everything according to his will then why God should be there to control everything?  As far as my experience is concerned, no one has ever found a clear answer to this paradox.  But Roman 8:28 has given me a clear answer to this paradox.  So in a believers life, as he/she loves God, everything work together only for his/her good.

So the so called ‘present persecution’ was also in the early church.  When that persecution started only lay people were scattered and leaders stay back in Jerusalem.  Suppose if the leaders too have run not only the Jerusalem Christians would have suffered, but those who were persecuting the church would have followed the leaders everywhere and they could have never got any opportunity to preach the gospel.  As only the lay people were scattered, wherever they went freely shared their faith with other people.   So the early church spread only through these lay people not exclusively by the Apostles.  So when the church become stagnant and forget her mission viz., sharing her faith with others, then God has to send such a jolt in the name of persecution so that she would wake up from her sleep.  God wants His chosen people spontaneously spread the good news and His plan was not the full-time ministry or Organization to do this job.  So a TRUE church can be found and grow only through a SPONTANEOUS expansion of the church by the lay people and not by any paid servants to do that job.  Read Ronald Allen’s book The Spontaneous Expansion of the Church.  The Organization and Mission viz., the Institutionalized Missions are a product of Western Civilization and not biblical.

            But Allen is not out right condemning the Organizations and Missions.  When the Church failed in her responsibility of spreading the Gospel, God allowed these Mission Organizations to do that work.  But where the Mission failed in their endeavour is that instead of establishing LOCAL churches the only established further mission fields in the name of church planting.  What all the things carried in the Mission field in the name of administration by the Mission board was repeated by the mission fields in the so called churches which they have established.  Then the Missionaries in the mission field always looked for guidance, support to the Organization and the churches which they have founded looked the missionaries for guidance support for their very existence.  So their spontaneous expansion never took place.  The missionaries instead created only parasite mission fields in the name of church planting and not real church in the sense of what we find in the New Testament.  Instead of allowing the local churches to select their own leaders, we appointed our own choice on them as their leaders.  We gave special training in our Mission Compound or Theological colleges and then we say ‘here are our TRAINED people who are good to lead you in your need’.  But the training which we gave is the same which we learnt from our Western Missionary system which is not relevant to our situation.

            The main problem which started here is that even those native local leaders who are trained by us began to receive their support not from the local church but only from the Mission board or Organization.  Not only this even the very church building under which the local people gathered to worship was constructed not by them but by the Organization.  So when the Hindu Fundamentalists demolish the local churches the local Christians are not that much disturbed or come forward to protect it.  Because if one building is demolished the Mission is there to construct another one.  Whereas if the Hindu Fundamentalist come and break their own houses what these local Convert would have done.  They would have fought back to protect their property.  Even in some tribal area some so called Indigenous Organization have constructed big churches spending not less than five lakh rupees for those tribal people.  When the Hindu Fundamentalists saw such a big structure in the name of church, it threatens their communal identity and therefore they demolish them.

            But it should be remembered that those early Missionaries never done those things with any wrong motive or intention.  They have done their best in their own time.   And they have done it even sacrificially.  But instead of learning from the past mistake, the present Missions are repeating the same mistake in the name of Ministry and Church planting.  For this we say that the new converts are not that much rich or educated or have knowledge to look after their own affairs and churches therefore we have to help them in all these areas.  But what are the criterions to decide that the new believers/converts are not strong enough to grow themselves: money, men power, knowledge, education.  Take for example of the new movement called ‘Kalki bhagavan’ in south India.  It is spontaneously growing without the aid of any paid workers.  But we put certain condition for the expansion of the Kingdom of God: a building, an appointed pastor, a Sunday school, a convention, and there by reduced the Kingdom of God to a structure.  We may justify these structure to safe guard the faith of the new converts from all kinds of heresy or developing in to a Christ-paganism.  But this is a big subject and here we don’t have time to go into details and as Allen has deal with all these issues, it is better to read his book to get the answer and let us return back to our original question: Why God is allowing all these to happen to the Christian world?  He wants to challenge the present church and missions to awaken from their slumber to wake upto the reality and need of the hour.  Both in the Old and New Testaments when the people of God failed to remember their call and role in the world, then God has to send trouble to them to punish them and that He has done most of the time by the people outside His Kingdom.  So we should learn from History.  Think and contemplate all the mistakes that we have done as a church and learn from it.  I am not much bothered about the mistakes done by the church and missions.  That is a past history.  But what we have to learn from it?

At present what should we do?  When you bring a person to Christ, win his confidence first and then share all the mistakes that you have done in the name of Church planting or ministry and warn him not to repeat the same in his life.  Ask him to learn from your mistakes and never allow him to repeat the same mistakes in his life too.  But in the name of sharing all your mistakes you needed not tell about all your personal problems and other things.  Share up to the point from which he can learn from your mistake and can proceed on his own initiative to start a spontaneous expansion of the church.  In my ministry I tell the same thing to my chelas.  I never hide from them that I have joined an Organization and was once a paid worker.  But I made it clear to them that I don’t want them to repeat the same in their life too.   I tell them: ‘If Jesus is real to you, if you have the assurance of salvation only through Him, and if you know that Christ has brought several new values in your life, then it is your responsibility to introduce this Jesus to your own people.’  Allen clearly says that while we should allow the new believers to create spontaneous church growth, we should never abandon them.

Bible never gives any pattern for us to follow, particularly in the area of church growth but only imparts principles for us to adopt.  Of course these principles are evolved only out of a pattern which Paul has done or what we are doing.  So the principles are objective and the pattern is subjective.  Therefore we should take those objective principles to create our own subjective patters which would be relevant to our situation.  Because Paul has done the ministry in certain way and as it is recorded in the bible, then we should not say that the very pattern which Paul adopted are themselves become biblical pattern for us to follow.  So it is only the principles and not the pattern which are in the bible should be our guidance.  Of course those pattern can inspire us, challenge us, encourage us but they cannot guarantee any success to us.  We should learn the principles out of the pattern and should not imitate the very pattern itself.

For example Paul always went to the local synagogue to preach and if he is accepted then he carried out his ministry based on it and if he is opposed, collecting those few who accepted him, moved outside the synagogue.  Now can we do the same thing now?  Can we start our ministry based only on a local church?  Remember the very synagogue is not God gave to the Jewish people, it was their own creation in their Diaspora.  Even here Paul, after establishing local churches, he allowed them to expand spontaneously and never extended his Antioch Mission based churches.  He allowed them to live in their own local cultural, social, economic, political and even to some extent religious situation and grow from their.  But what we are doing is not even following Paul’s pattern in this area.  Instead of establishing local churches, we are only extending our respective Mission fields.  It is interesting to note that even though FMPB is claiming to work with local churches wherever it work, yet most of the churches are only FMPB Churches, though they are under CNI in general.  Most of the Mission field pastors are FMPB missionaries receiving salary from the Organization.  When they will be transferred from one Church cum Mission field to another, then FMPB need not consult the Bishop or get his permission to do so.  In a real sense at least in South Gujarat and South Bihar CNI FMPB is an extra-church authority side by side with the Bishop to run the churches.  I never heard any non-FMPB church Pastor serving in the same area in which FMPB is serving receiving any salary from FMPB to do the ministry to the FMPB churches.  So the old traditional churches are CSI/CNI churches and the new CSI/CNI churches are except in few exceptions (like Marandahalli), are only FMPB Mission fields and not the local churches run by the local administration.  To say in other words, the churches founded by FMPB are though ‘for’ the local people, they are not necessarily ‘of’ the local people and ‘by’ the local people.  So here also we are not following the pattern of Paul but only the Western Missionaries which they have brought from their civilization.

Paul established local churches and never expanded Antioch Mission fields.  Colosian church was not founded by Paul but by Ephaphratus.  When Paul heard about them, he only writes to encourage and solve their problem and never appointed any paid workers to look after their affairs.  How many members were there in that Colosian church.  We don’t know.  May be five, eight or ten.  But definitely more than one person.  But what we think about a church?  First a building, then a congregation, a (paid) Pastor, an alter, a cross etc.  But we never hear about these things in the early church.  So to say that we have to follow Paul’s pattern, we are not doing it.  He appointed local leaders, probably already recognized by the local people themselves as their leader.   Of course there was a Timothy, a Titus.  But even in their cases they were supported by the local church and even Timothy collected money from the new church to send to Jerusalem and never received his salary and support from Jerusalem.  If they could have managed even to support an outsider like Timothy and Titus why cannot our new churches today?  Because our churches are not really churches but only mini mission fields within our field.

When church failed in her call and vision and mission, Missionary Organizations started.  But the Missionary Organizations failed in establishing more their own mission fields in the name of church planting and never established local churches based both on the biblical principle and pattern.  So our very pattern itself is not biblical—if you want to be strictly biblical in all your activities.  In the area of cross-cultural evangelism we cannot avoid paid workers at the initial stage.  But when the local people are raised to that job, only the language and nationality changes.  Instead of a Malayali or a Tamilian, now a Bihari or a Gujarati become the missionary.  Again he is paid not by the local church but by the Malayali or Tamilian Mission Society.  The cross cultural missionaries only produced full time workers and not true believers who can expand the church on their own personal zeal or resources.  So a Cross-cultural evangelical Missionary should do his best realizing his limitation.  But he should warn his converts not to follow his pattern but produce their own local churches.

When it come to the question of ‘training’ even those new believers have to multiply themselves, we need to give some kind of training to them.  And how and where we can organize such a training without the help and support of a Mission.  The answer to this question is very obvious from the Bible.  Paul never recruited four people from each church he established and send them to Jerusalem or Antioch to train them.  He trained them in their own local situation.  And there also I think that it was the local people took care of him and their own need and never the Jerusalem church/mission or Antioch church/mission send any support to him even to conduct such ‘training’.  Above Paul never gave any ‘training’ to his chelas.  He stayed with them and gave only teaching that too relevant to their situation.  That is why we find various kinds of teachings in all his letters.  It is important to note that most of the teachings he gave are not necessarily based either on the teaching of Lord Jesus or the Apostles or on the Old Testament.  According to the need of their local situation,–social, cultural, economic, political—Paul gave his ‘OWN’ teachings.  And he never followed any curriculum prepared by the Jerusalem theologians or visiting professors from Canada and America as O.M.ers are doing to get some certificate from Foreign Theological Institutes.  This is what I am also doing.  When I go to Rewa, I teach to the boys according to the need of their situation.  When they share their personal, family problem, I ask them to read relevant passages from the Bible and ask them to meditate and come out their own solution.  I even do not give my own answers and allow the Bible speak to them.  And where there is no clear direct teaching from the bible which would be relevant to their situation, then I take the principle and ask them to apply it to their situation.

Of course Paul as a Single man and I like him can stay with our chelas and teach them according to their situation.  But all cannot do this.  But this doesn’t mean that you have to send your converts to any seminary or training Institute.  You teach and train local leaders who in turn can teach the mandali in their own situation.  If you can find one believer in your mandali, who can read the bible and able to understand it in the minimum level, he should be their local teacher.  The Word of God and the Spirit of God is enough to ‘train’ people and they don’t need you and they don’t need your Bible college, Mission Training Center, curriculum, certificate to get a job in any other Missionary Organization.  Above all there is one danger in such certificate based training.  After getting your certificate he can be easily purchased by other Organizations and churches to expand their own Kingdom in your dominion at your own cost.  So you are not only spoiling him but also investing your Time and Money to become a threat to your own dominion and position.  At least to safeguard your interest, don’t send your converts to any Training Centres.

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Follow Jesus and Paul what they have done in this area.  Jesus selected twelve and intensively trained three and Paul selected few and trained them.  Again ‘training’ is not the right word to use, but taught them.  But what we do.  In the name of more churches, winning more people, we urgently recruit new ‘converts’ and send them to Training centers and make them full time workers and send them not even to their own people but to other places.  And what they can do is to repeat the same formula as they were not allowed to think and act naturally.  We programmed their mind and life according to our Mission agenda and miserably failed in our evangelical endeavour.  If you are working among the Dalit, raise their Dalit issues and give teaching to them according to their need and never teach your American curriculum to those Dalit believers.  What is the use of it to them.  In the name of developing them you began to teach your programme, plan and agenda to them, you are restricting their natural growth.  If they develop according your agenda that is not real development.  But if they were taught to handle their own situation and be a inside witness to their people then that alone is the real development.  If there is no one to teach them according to their context, then we have to go the extra mile, by becoming all things to all men.  Become a Dalit to teach dalit issues to the dalit believers.  Never impose your teaching on them in the name of training them.  Find out natural leader among your converts.  Teach them in their own situation.  Prepare them to take the gospel to their own people and warn them not to imitate your pattern and confess the mistakes that you have done and encourage them to stand on their own leg and spread the gospel.  In allowing them to go in their own way, as Allen has rightly said, we need not abandon them.  Stand by.  Allow them even to commit mistake.  But never allow them to repeat the same mistake of ours.  If the local Christians and Pastors oppose your ways, make it clear to them that you don’t want to repeat the past mistakes in the name of converting people from Hindu Community to Christian community.  Anyhow, however you educate the existing Christians all are not going to understand you or agree with you.  So you have to take the decision: either to please the local Christians or God.  If Paul wanted to please the Judaizers and allow the Galatians to be circumcised, remember you and I won’t now be a bhakta of Christ.  Paul refused to please the Jerusalem Christians or local Jews.  Jesus was not accepted by the Pharisees, Paul was not accepted by the Judaizers and we won’t be accepted by the existing Christians and Missions.  But there is no other options to choose whom you want to please.  You cannot please both of them at the same time.  Above all if you don’t want to be alienated from your Christian community—Identity—Security, in the name of contextualization, then tell to your own Christian people:  We are experimenting this method.  If we are successful praise God.  And if we failed, then we failed and we as a Church learned one more lesson in the area of Missionary work.  As all cannot offered their time and have courage to launch such new adventure, I am doing it and you please stand by and pray.  Any how finally I am also answerable to some one who gave permission to do like this.  We are not running widely with our own plan.  There are people behind us who are praying and supporting us.  If you think that we don’t have that much time to do all these kinds of new experiments and as the Second Coming of Our Lord is Very near and we want to Win as much people as possible for the Lord, then I would say: bring a person to the Lord and develop him is a life long process and it is not business.  So you have invest your whole life on it.  Above all contextualisation is not at all new thing.  In the past people like Robert de Nobili attempted in our land.  But the difference between him and us is that he as an outsider try to contextualise the gospel.  But we as Hindus assimilated the gospel as Hindus and therefore we need not contextualise the gospel to share our faith with our own people.  At the same time all the Christians have to seriously think about this and try to adopt themselves according to the need and demand of their time.  If they are not going to change God will send persecution to make them to change.  But we, I mean, we Hindu Christ bhaktas need not worry about what the local Christians or church is thinking about us.  As we are not Christians why should we bother what they think about us. 

Let us remember the core issue.  The present so called persecution against Christians is not because of conversion from one faith to another faith but from one community to another community.  And the political parties are making it as an issue as their vote bank is affected.  Even the non-B.J.P. people who are supporting Christians are doing it only keeping an eye on the vote bank.  As conversion remains change from one community to another such a problem will always come.  One time a Muslim told a Christian Missionary, ‘In order to increase the number of your Christian Community you are going to Leprosy colonies and tribal people and slum areas.  But we are doing it in our bed room’.  This is how conversion is viewed by others here in India.  Wherever it may be if the Community balance is disturbed, particularly that of local from outsiders, the local people are going to fight.  When Hindu community Identity is threatened by the Christian conversion and population growth of Muslims, the annoyed Fundamentalist oppose it.  And ‘politicizing religion and communalising the politics’ become their agenda then.

The Sangh parivar is not against volunteer conversion by any one.  If they oppose it, then they have to oppose what some Hindu Missions are doing in outside India converting non-Indians as Hindus.  But what is happening in some parts of India is just opposite.  I am ready to lay down my life for my faith in Christ.  But I don’t want to make a public statement in the Press that now I become a converted Christian, because I don’t believe in such conversion.  I am ready to give my life for the sake of my faith in Christ, for the sake of the Kingdom of God but not for the sake of Churchianity, not for the sake of an Institution, not even for Christian community and not for a wrong motive.   And in this point I am not worrying about convincing Christians.  Go ahead and do whatever you Christians want to do and face the consequence.  But I tell this to my own people, the Hindu Christ bhaktas—don’t repeat the same mistakes which the Christians have done or doing.

Of course there is competition among Organizations and Church to expand their own Kingdom among Hindus.  Definitely to have your pound of flesh, you too will try to ‘win’ as much people as possible to your ‘Mission/Church’ Kingdom.  And when your vested interested are challenged by the Fundamentalists and your mission compounds (which you call as churches) are attacked and demolished, then you all Christian Churches and Organizations will join together to organize protest rallies and marches.  But you people will never sit together and think or discuss about the basic issues which is instigating the Fundamentalists to attack your interests.  On the other day Harish said that at Anil’s place the Seventh Day Adventists already made their advent.  Promising Hospital, School and free education they have converted several people.  Now the Bhaktas of Anil group both have a challenge and blessing.  The challenge is that in order to introduce Jesus to their own people Anil’s people can retain their Hindu Identity and continue to live as Hindu Christ bhaktas instead of affected by the other Christian/Mission activities going around them.  The blessing is that in order to get such monetary benefit they cannot switch over their loyalty to another Organization because the other Christian Organizations/Missions will accept them ONLY as Christians and not as Hindu Christ Bhaktas.   But in order to face such challenges and competitions from other Churches and Missions we need not follow their pattern.  In this changing scenario their Mission and Christian activities are at stake.  Even now you cannot send more O.M. Teams to sell literature and what are you going to do with those boys?   So think and change your strategy or the Fundamentalist will make you to change your strategy.  And here lies God’s plan behind this present crises.  He knows that you Christians will never listen people me.  Therefore He send the Fundamentalist to listen His voice clearly.

            Roy asked that in order to ‘Win’ Hindus to Christ, we too should do idol puja like them or allow the new believers to continue it to bring his relatives to Christ.  For this I said that no where I or any one from our group said that we should do idol puja to ‘win’ others to Christ.  As an outsider a Christian full time worker can keep himself away from all such activities.  But a new believer, being a local man in his place, in order to keep his rapport with his people, outsiders like Roy should not decide what the new believer should do or should not do.  This does not mean that in order to allow a new believer to keep in touch with his people, we too should allow him to continue those practices which is unbiblical in the name of tradition.  No.  But to change the world view of a given society based on the bible is a long process which an individual ‘convert’ cannot do.  Even in the first two or three centuries various tradition of paganism and Judaism was still continued in early Christian communities without knowing what is biblical or unbiblical.  It took several hundred years for the Church fathers to form one clear cut Christian Doctrine based on the bible, as bible itself came in to existent at its present form.  Even in forming such Doctrines there were difference of opinion between various schools like Alexandrine school and Antioch school.  So if it took three hundred years to form a particular Christian doctrine in the early church, let it take hundred years at Anil’s village to form their own doctrines regarding their attitude and relationship with their community and society.  Then alone they will be in a position to form their own Christology relevant to their situation.  And in the name of teaching or protecting their faith we should not impose our Christology.  It is better to have a Christopaganism to have western churchopaganism in the name of teaching.  At least the Christo-paganism is Christ centred whereas the Churcho-paganism is only Westernized church/pulpit centred.   Even in several churches like Syrian, orthodox, Marthoma Churches are doing several practices which are resembling idol worship of the Hindus.  If they cannot worship without them even as symbol, we have no right to talk about Idol worship of Hindus or even of a new believer in his own situation.  Again the question here is where it is a permission or a concession.  Of course in God’s sight permission and concession make no difference, but a outsider like Roy has no right to pass judgement or criticise keeping all kinds of unbiblical practices in their own churches.  If all these churches cannot be asked to changed why should we expect the new believers to change all their so called unbiblical practices within a year or two and in some places immediately within a day or two.

The worst thing here is, if you force a new believer to keep away from all kinds of idol worship and other so called unbiblical activities according to your interpretation, he may say yes to you but will go and practise in your absence.  As an outsider you are not going to live with him all the time.  Being a kabadi evangelist you  don’t know what he is doing all the time.  So by insisting no to participate in certain rituals you will make him a hypocrite.  He will say yes to you and go and practise against it in your absence.  Better let him do mistake as a honest person and struggle to overcome it than be a hypocrite.  What Paul has done in Acts 21 is not a compromise but in order to keep his rapport with his own people he went to that second mile knowing that such rituals and purification are no more required to add to the salvation which Christ has given.  So instead of sitting on Moses throne and dictate terms we should sympathetically identify with new believers in all their struggle to keep their faith alive in their alien situation.

Most of the Hindu rituals are not exclusively religious.  Most of the time the local pandits are required to do some of them not because of religious importance but because of economic importance.  In a Hindu society all the religious and social rituals and customs are based mainly on economy so that all the members of that given community can survive.  So if you refuse to do certain rituals you are also depriving the local priest who is making a living out of it.  And all in a sudden if the whole village become Christians what will happen to their income and survival.  Then you have to convert the priest and make him a Pastor whether he studied theology or not.  So as long as their economy is not affected, the priests won’t mind with what faith you have done those rituals.  As long as their income is assured they will allow you or they themselves do all the rituals for you without any faith on them from your part.  Until a particular community or society as a whole didn’t  come to Christ, doing certain rituals or participating in them are not wrong.  At Chandaneswar the new believers said to me if they don’t participate in the communal meal after astajam or some puja, then the society will boycott them as Muslim as Muslims alone are not invited for such feasts.  It is important to note that the Hindus themselves won’t invite a Muslim for their communal meal.  And if they invite you even after knowing that you are a Christ bhakta, then it is a privilege as they are not boycotting you socially or at least not considering you as a Muslim.  Even if they think that you become a Christian, if they still invite you for the meal, then it is a blessing from the Lord as He is allowing the people to consider you still a part of their community and society.  And never miss that opportunity to keep your identity with your community and society.

Those who want to become ‘Christians’ for any reason and want to leave their Hindu identity, we are not talking these points to them.  But those who want to share their faith with their own people in their respective community and society we address these issues.  Here some one make ask how many of your people you have brought to Christ by such compromise or how many of your chelas have done it.  On the other hand by keeping away from all Hindu rituals and remaining as a witness for Christ, we have won several Hindus for Christianity.  Well, again I have to repeat the point here that what we want to promote as Hindu Christ bhaktas it is a long process.  Even it will take five hundred years for the society to give recognition to us.  But we have to keep patience and press forward.  Above all as I don’t want to become a ‘Christian’ giving up my cultural and social identity, I don’t want to ‘win’ my own people to Christianity.  For you Christianity is the Kingdom of God for us it is only Western Christendom or Western civilization.  What you promote may be right from your Church point of view and not necessarily from the bible point of view.  Just to please you or to increase the percentage of Christians in India, I don’t want to join hands with you in your proselytation effort.  We may not be successful in our efforts to remain as inside witness in our own community and society now.  But this is a new beginning outside the church and it will take time.  And your early assessment is showing your judgmental spirit rather than real burden to share your faith with others.  At least in India as Christianity came only in this way of changing of community identity and not necessarily faith, we are talking like this.  There may be some exceptions, but in general the Christian conversion in India is most of the time was a social issue and not spiritual issue.

Regarding marriage it is between a man and woman and faith is not the criteria here.  What you quote from Second Corinthians chapter six is out of context.  If you say that as Abraham sent his servant to find a girl for his son only from his own people, viz., community and not from the people among whom he is living, then remember that Rebecca came from a community of idol worshippers.  Abraham was chosen by God among the idol worshippers.  When Rebecca sent Jacob to her brother’s house they all were idol worshippers.  So it is a poor example to quote Abraham and it is not supporting your view of marriage between believers.  So don’t make any principle exclusively based on Old Testament.  In Old Testament polygamy is allowed and can you allow the same thing to day.  Even Hindu marriage law is not allowing polygamy.

Regarding spiritual discipline, bible never gives any rules and regulations or models to follow.  Both Muslims and Hindus have their own rules (vidhi, Ê´ÉÊnù) to worship in a particular way, but bible never gives such regulations.  So you can form your own patters according your nature, need, community—culture and custom.

Regarding Personal laws, only in India we have three different personal laws, each one Hindus, Muslims and Christians.  Well it is a long story.  Now to the question what is wrong for the Christians to have separate personal law, we should remember that these personal laws are dealing with our Civil rights like: property, marriage, divorce etc.  If we have different personal laws, then we need different law books, and both Lawyers and Judges have to study all of them according to the respective communities and the court cases will drag and it will take long time to finish each case.  For example take the law of adoption.  Though a Christian can adopt a child in India, still according to his personal law only he is a guardian for that child up to 21 years and never an official father.  Whereas a Hindu adopts a child he becomes an official father.  As the Christians are still living under their adoption law of 1860 (I heard about this in Star TV News special report).  If we have one Common Personal Law for all the Indians that will help our Judiciary to dispose all the civil cases quickly.  That is why you should not baptise a person without filing an affidavit in the court declaring about his conversion from one religion to another religion as here change is not merely faith but also community as well as personal law.  When a priest is ordained in an Official church, he is automatically gets certain constitutional rights to baptise, perform marriage etc.  That is why without filing an affidavit conversion become a judicial problem.  Whereas when we become Christ bhaktas remaining as Hindus we don’t need such judicial process.

Hindus are much more concerned about karma and not about sin.  They have propitiation (prayascit) for sin but they have to reap the consequences of karma from which they cannot escape.  Of course you can propitiate for your sin, but the result of it will come as karma.  That is why there is different from dharma and adharma from sin.  Gita talks about Krishna coming to destroy dharma and not necessarily sinners.  There in chapter four the evil doers are adharmies who are not obeying their respective dharmas.  There may be no direct relationship between adharm and karma.  By violating dharma one becomes a adharmi and thereby commit sin and the consequence of that is karma from which one cannot escape.  Of course I can do some propitiation for the sin I have committed but as I have violated my dharma, I have to reap the consequence of my sin in the form of karma.  Even if I follow my dharma properly it will also result in good karma from which I cannot escape.  Take for example of the four yugas.  In each yuga dharma is declining one fourth: In Kreta there was full dharma and in threta only three fourth of dharma was there and in Dwapara only half and at present in Kali only one fourth of dharma is left and that is why this much adharm is prevailing in the society.

The following is from my diary of Feb. 8th and on which Roy again asked question and before I record from our class discussion I am want to type what I have written in my diary:

After the class—or at the end of the class when I came to know all the boys—including that of Anil village are going to join the procession I was shocked.  Then I objected to it by saying, ‘I want Christians to go and join the procession to identify with minority.  But why the boys from Anil’s village—including Anil should go and join the procession?  If it is organized by Human Right purpose we can justify in joining in it.  But why should they go.  If they want to go, well let them go, but I don’t want to go any more to their places as I have my own principles which I cannot compromise.’

This my statement stunned Harish and others.  Even Harish said that the procession is arranged by the Human Rights Group in which all the minority—Christians, Muslims—Sikhs also will participate.  ‘That is true.  But why should I or others who are Hindus should go to the procession arranged by the minorities.  We are not minorities.  For this someone in the class said that just to show our protest against the atrocities against minorities we want to go.  “But when Kashmiri Pandits were killed and have to leave their home land the same Human Right group or Minority people never arranged any procession in opposing the Muslim militants. It should be remembered that Kashmiri pandits also are minorities in Kashmir.

For this Harish said we cannot go to Kashmir to protest.  As the procession is arranged here, and at this tie the boys came, they want to join.  I even never asked them to join.

But he could have clearly tell them that they should keep away from such activities.  Any how I may be wrong.  But I think God alone has even arranged this so that I can think about investing my time, money and energy properly among this Shishya group properly in future.

Visiting Shisyas Team is also very tiring job.  So when they all went I made up my mind not to go to their place now.

After they left one local Tamilian Pastor from Jehovah Shemma group came to see me.  His name is Paul Samuel.  He asked few questions.  When he requested me to come and take some classes for the students of their Training Centre I refused and said that I generally keep myself away from Christians.  Interestingly when I asked him why he is not going to the procession he said that in their group they don’t believe in such activities.  “So you are not a minority”, I asked.  “No.  We are majority”, he responded. Well whatever he may mean by it, here a traditional Christian refuses to go and join in the procession to identify with Christian minorities, but Harish and Anil allowed the Hindu Christ bhaktas to go.

For me just going to such a procession outside their village is not the issue.  But what kind of message that we want to impose on their mind is important.  Again I may be wrong.  But I need time to think calmly before I take any decision.

However when few hesitated to go as I objected, I made it clear to them that I don’t want to blackmail them, viz., if the so called ‘Hindu’ Christ bhaktas also go to the meeting—due to ideological contradiction—I won’t visit any more their team.  I also said that now if they change their mind and decide not to go because of me, then they are hypocrites—because they can easily change their conviction to accommodate other’s opinion.  “Once you have made up your mind, then you should go.  And you should not now stop because of  me”.

Now continues my discussion in the class after they have returned from the procession:

Roy asked, ‘by objecting the Hindu Christ bhaktas to go and join in the procession, do you think that they are not belong to the body of Christ and should not identify with the suffering of other Christians.’?

In way of answer I said, ‘ The main issue here is identity problem.  Before going to it, you have first to define what is mean by the body of Christ.  Is the Church as it is (in India) is the body of Christ?  Or the Christian Community (again in India) is the body of Christ? Or the Church at Universal is the body of Christ?  After you all left that Pastor from Jehovah Shemma came to see me but when I asked why he didn’t go to join the procession he said he is not ready to identify with those Christians and in his group they don’t believe in such activities.  When I asked him about the name of his church he said ‘believers assembly’.  Therefore he is not ready to accept that other churches are not believers assemblies.

Then I shared about Ron Penny’s prayer letter sent for the Work Together programme in Bihar in which he mentioned that in the whole of North Bihar among ten crorer people there are only sixteen assemblies.  For him only Brethren assemblies are only assemblies among the ten crorer people in North Bihar and he is refused even to recognize that other denominational church are working among the North Biharies.  Even though he may not agree with other’s doctrines but he should have at least mention that apart from those sixteen Brethren assemblies other Organizations and churches are there and this is the actual percentage of Christians in North Bihar in his prayer letter.  But he even refuse to recognize their presence in North Bihar.  Is this the body of Christ in India?

As human beings we all are one kind.  But this does not mean that we all are one.  Like wise though we all are members of the body of Christ yet we all are not one—because of our respective National, community  ethnic and cultural identity.  Because you are a Christian other Christian countries won’t allow you to come and go freely or allow you to become their citizens.  I want Christians to go and join in that procession.  Now after returning from the procession Harish is telling that even Hindus also came and other minorities also came.  But it is only now you say.  But yesterday and to day morning the news was that Christians are arranging procession to protest against the atrocities against them.  So when you all went you went only to the Christian Procession and thereby dragged the boys from Anil village who claim as Hindu Christ bhaktas to it and convey the message that though you call yourself a Hindu Christ Bhakta, yet you are Christian like us.  So these village boys went there as Christians.  This is ideological contradiction and therefore I oppose.

When the judaizers came from Jerusalem and created problem at Galatia Paul has to oppose them not only for the sake of theological issue (saved by grace only) but also sociological issue.  For the Jews circumscion is not merely a religious symbol but also a community identity.  That is why Paul has to oppose.  Even among Vaishnavites there are certain group called ‘kandi dharies’.  When they come together for worship they all are one.  But when it come to sociological issue of marriage and other things, they are different.  When Paul sent back Onacimas to Philaman, he not only sent him as his brother in Christ but also as a SLAVE.  We don’t know what happen to Philaman later.  Because a run away slave can be punished unto death by his master as it is a serious social and economic problem.  A Slave Master can even give capital punishment to his run away slave if he were ever found back.  Probably Philaman too, in order to keep his status as a Master might have at least given some kind of punishment to Onacimus in order to warn other salves not dare to do the same thing again, other wise other Slave Master’s would have objected Philaman’s changed attitude towards a run away salve.  So both Philaman and Onacimus were brothers in Christ, yet they are not one socially, culturally and economically.  This fact we have to recognize.

For me I see other fellow men as human beings and not as Hindus, Christian, Muslims etc.  Recently one Christian full time worker asked me how I will feel if I were surrounded by ten thousand people who do not know Christ.  I said nothing.  I just see them as human beings that is all.  Like a typical evangelical I won’t say, ‘Oh!  How these people are going to perish without Christ etc.”  I am not going to sit and weep.  Can I mourn for those people twenty four hours.  Don’t mingle your faith with emotion.  Emotion is separate from faith.  Of course as human beings we need emotion.   But in realistic life we know its limitation.   To have burden for the lost souls is different but seeing them as human being is different issue.  If I get an opportunity to share Christ with them, I will make use of those opportunity to share my faith.  But I am not answerable to all those people who are living around me.  God knows how to deal with them and let me do my part allowing God to do His part.  Of course, I am not against preaching the gospel to all the people.  But as a Hindu Christ bhakta, I believe in multiplying within a community—gradually, rather closing the whole Community and Society for the gospel identifying with Christian in the name of body of Christ or try to reach out the whole society by mass evangelism.  Let the Christians do the mass evangelism.  I have no objection, but I believe in different approach to my own people.  And for the sake of the gospel and my identity I want to keep away from Christians.  So when I see other Christians I see them only as fellow human beings and not necessarily as a member of body of Christ.  For me the whole world is the family of God.  Though who are not following Christ are not the member of the body of Christ, yet they are the children of God.  So by asking these new Hindu Christ bhaktas to go and participate in the procession what kind of ideology we want to impose on their mind.  By encouraging such activities, we will gradually brainwash them and one day will make them another group of Christians.  I too went and met Graham’s wife and conveyed my condolence and mourned for the death of those two innocent boys.  But I did it mainly as a fellow human being first and then as an Indian and Hindu and finally as a fellow member of the body of Christ.  When Kashmir Pandits were gunned down, the same Christians are not bother about it and never raised their voice against the Muslim militants.  Though Hindus are majority in India, yet the Kashmir Pandits are minorities in their place.  That time where your concern for the suffering for the minorities have gone?  Only Hindus were protesting against Muslim militants and people like Thakere went to the extant of digging the pitch of Cricket field.  When the so called secular Hindus have protested against the atrocities committed against Christians and Muslims by the Hindu Fundamentalists, why you Christians are not raising your voice against the persecution of minorities of Kashmir?  In the India Question Time in BBC, when someone from the audience asked to whom they (the political participants) would like to give the next Bhaktavibhushan award, Somanath Chaterji of Communist party wanted to give to Graham postmasthuly and Mrs. Girija vyas of Congress to Gladies but the Minority Commission Leader, who is a Muslim wanted to give it to that Hindu brother who save several lives of Christians in recent violence in Gujarat.  That should be your attitude towards the followers of other faith other than yours. 

Here, though a digression, I would like to share one common feeling prevailing among Christians particularly among evangelicals.  They don’t have real love for Hindus.  They see them only as lost souls and from among whom they want to win some proselyters only for their religious community.  They are ready to join hands with Muslims in the name of minority, but never join with Hindus for any cause of nation building.  That is why some Hindus have the feeling that the (Indian) Christians are very narrow minded people.  When their interests are affected then they raise their voice.  But when it comes to common cause they remain indifferent.  When Congress was in Power several churches were demolished in Arunachal predesh.  When Narasimha Rao was the Prime Minister one R. C. Father was killed at Ranchi.  That time how many Muslims, Sikhs joined with you Christians to raise their voice against the violence against minorities.  But now when your social interest are affected, then immediately in organize in the name of Human right and call all the minorities to join with you.  When the Christian minorities are persecuted in Pakistan did the Indian Muslim joined with you in raising their voice against such persecution?  When Ahemedia community was persecuted in Pakistan, did you Christian raised your voice against such minorities?

As a fellow human being I am not supporting any kind of violence against other fellow human being under any name.  A true Christ bhakta will never show any partiality towards fellow human suffering or persecution.  I feel sorry for the ethnic Albenian Muslims being killed by the Serbian Christians.  Whereas (Indian) Christians join together to give one voice when their sociological interests are affected.  But when it comes to theological issue you are not ready to accept others even an true Christians.  Of course when their sociological interests are affected all are going to join according to their community, religious, ethnic wise together, in spite of their difference in faith and theology.  This the Hindus can do, because their unity as Hindu is only social and never theology.  Where as Christian unity should be only theology and not necessarily sociology.  Hindus never going to say that we are one body in Vishnu or Siva etc.   You are not ready to live up to the standard which bible has set as a body of Christ theologically.  But when your worldly interests are affected, then you want to come together as a body of Christ and expects us to join with you.  You are ready to Compromise your faith for your worldly security.  But you are not ready to come together, even biblically, for your eternal security.  So when these village Hindu Christ bhaktas were encouraged to go and join in such procession, then you want to impose your agenda that they are part of Christian Community of India which is not necessarily and truly the body of Christ.  And you are in a way answerable/responsible to a part of  a Christian sociological community.  I have to oppose such agenda as this is not the body of Christ.

Community identity is not the call for unity in Christ.  What Paul says in Galatians as there is no more Gentile or Jew; Slave or Master; Men or Women—it is only theological identity and not sociological or psychological unity.  Though in Christ men and women are one, yet we are not one physically.  That is why we have separate toilets and staying accommodation when we gather together as body of Christ in some conference.  Though a believing wife and husband are one in Christ, yet they are physical, psychologically and even emotionally different.  I don’t want to impose my idea on others.  But what I keep in my life as Christ bhakta is a long term vision.  For the sake of my own people, I don’t want to keep any sociological identity with Christians in India.  Even now a days I deny any invitation to come and teach Christians any where.  Why?  I don’t have time for that and above all I want to keep my principle.  I am a Hindu and bhakta of Christ.  I have keep a humanitarian attitude towards all—Christians, Muslims, Hindus and others.  But I don’t want have any identity with Christian community as a Christian or a sympathizer for their sociological concerns.  This is because I keep a long vision.  Suppose in future some one come and do any kind of research on my life, then I have to communicate a message to the Hindu world, then what will happen to my identity.  There I don’t want to be hypocrite to them.  No one should say that whenever he needs some security and help he will go to the Christian community and just to convert Hindus again Christian community alone he kept a Hindu Christ bhakta identity.  So he kept both identity just to survive and for worldly purpose.  This doesn’t mean that I am boycotting Christians altogether. For example I am staying with my friend Paul Kannan at South, who is a Christian.  But they are completely in agreement with me in my principle.  Above all what kind of message I am going to leave and community to my chelas who are Hindu Christ bhaktas.  This is much more important for me.  I have no guilty conscience.  When I came here I came here as a pure Hindu, when I will go to a Muslim house there also I will be a pure Hindu.  But I cannot go as a Hindu Christian and keep my IDENTITY with Christian community.  Above all this is my birth right to remain as a Hindu and follower of Christ and why should I give it up just for the sake of some sociological purpose in India.

To the question is it good to keep yourself and ask your chelas to keep away from Christians altogether, I would say I have to take two risks.  Either allow them to mingle with Christians and get brainwashed and in the long run become like them or keep away from them and try to influence them as you are taking several risk of loosing the faith or syncretism etc.  And I prefer the later to the former.  When the Ethiopian Enoch went back what kind of Christian Community was there to receive him and give him fellowship.  When Ephpharatus was led by Paul to Christ what did he do?  He went and found the Colosian church which Paul never have visited.  As one American has asked me in Nepal, when you were so much benefited by several ways by your fellowship with Christians, why you are denying such blessing to your chelas.  See I am a Sanyasi and I don’t have social identity within Hindu community in one sense.  In one way I am outside Hindu Community.  But my chelas as family members cannot always go and have their fellowship with Christians in the name of worship or learning, then what kind of message they are going to convey to their family and community.   To have friendship with others—Christians, Muslims etc. is a different issue.  Regarding the so called blessing that I received from Christians: in true sense I have lost my best identity within in Hindu world in one sense.  I don’t want others to do the same mistake.  The present fellowship and blessing which I receive from them are on the basis that they agree with me in this principle.  And even here I have extremely limited my so called fellowship with Christians.  I did not go to Church any more.  Now  a days I almost stopped going to Christian groups even to teach much.  If I want and try then I can get more monetary and other benefits only if I am come forward to adjust little bit to accommodate  the interest of the Christians also.  Above all co-existence is possible only when there is co-essence.  Just for the sake of some sociological and biological needs I don’t want give up Identity.  Of course conviction is costly one.

At the same time I don’t want any Christian to become a Hindu just to ‘win’ any Hindu for ‘Christianity’.  You cannot become a Hindu in any way.  Keep your identity and allow us to have our own.  Some Missionaries in some African country, in the name of contextualisation become Muslim by conversion and observed all the practices of Muslims.  When the Muslims later came to know that there came some problem.  This is wrong in every way.  But such conversion is not even possible in Hinduism as one can never become a Hindu but only should born as a Hindu.  Now some Hindu movements and gurus try to convert some foreigners and non-Hindus as Hindus but this is not accepted by Hindu Orthodoxy or society.   So I don’t believe conversion from one community to another.  Christ brings new values which is not in my Hindu tradition and I want to introduce this value in my community and society.  For this best approach is keep the Hindu Christ bhaktas as they are culturally and socially.  But in the name of fellowship and learning if we allow them to go and ‘identify’ with (local) Christians, then gradually they will be confirmed to the image of those Christians even forgetting their call to be an inside witness.  And I come here and speak to you because there are some people here who should carryout such a mission in their lives.  So I don’t want them waste their time by involving in such Christian activity of taking part in procession.  I too don’t go to Church or Christian group as I have time for it.  If anyone want to become ‘Christian’ and do all kinds of ‘Christian’ activity, well I have no problem.  But I don’t have to spent with such a person or group.  I am getting old and now I have to restrict some of my activities.  Above all I could not give enough time to my own chelas and why should I deprive them to have fellowship with me.  Shashikant Dube of Rewa always complain that I am not staying enough days with him and he said that in my next visit I should stay at least one month with him.  Navalji and his chelas are complaining that I don’t give enough time to them.  So if you all want to spend time with Christian activities then why should I come here?   This may  be an entertainment for you but this is an ideological issue for me.  Even these boys from Anil village don’t know actually what is happening there in that procession.  Out of curiosity they went and Anil took them.  (Anil Bhomic is always doing like this.  He has sent several boys to O.M. team which I objected but he never listened.  He feels that as he learnt several tings from O.M now he should send his boys again back.  When we encounter him on these points he always says ‘mistake has taken place (MɱÉÊiÉ ½þÉäVɪÉÉ).  What is the point of repeating the same.  When I encountered Anil later after the class what his boys have seen or learnt there he said,’ Nothing.  It was waste of time.  Mistake has taken place’.)  This may be an entertainment for you but for me it is ideological issue.  Do these innocent village boys know what is Minority Commission or Human Right issues.  For them it is again one rally that is all.  But to entertain you why should I waste my time.  I am using my money even to come to your place and I am not accepting any gift from you.  And we are here for three days to learn and for me the two hours which you all went to that procession is much more precious, which you could have used more meaningful way.  Now you all returned tired and sit again for the class.  Why this much waste of time.  Keeping a long vision, I want to help these Hindu Christ bhaktas to share their faith within their community and society whereas you are spoiling them by encouraging to participate in such Christian activities.  In Chennai where Rick’s son is studying in a Roman Catholic School, they didn’t close their school when all the Christian Institutions were closed protesting against the raping of those four Nuns in M.P.  I don’t know the reason why the School didn’t close that day, but when even a R.C. Institution refuse to join with other Christian Institutions to show solidarity, why these boys should go to the rally.  If you Christian brothers here didn’t go to that rally, it would have upset me, because as Christians you should go but not these boys from Anil’s village.  When I couldn’t find time to take rest or to do all my pending works, why should I invest my time with such people who cannot understand my principles.  I have no objection if they want to have their own principles.  But if it is not agreeable to me, then I will keep away but won’t waste their time.

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