Names for God and Jesus Christ
It has been suggested that a monthly discussion topic might help stir up more discussion on our web site, so this new feature has now been added. Please suggest other topics for future discussions.
This Rethinking Forum interactive web site is actually a second attempt at developing such an interactive network. The first effort failed due to technical and administrative problems, but not before some brief but stimulating discussion on the subject of changing the name of Jesus in Indian language Bibles to indicate the meaning of that name. Some in the RF network are now in the habit of praying to Jesus Christ as Mukteshwar or Muktinath, following the Hebrew meaning of the name “Jesus”.
So this is our first “discussion of the month”; please share your thoughts on changing the name of Jesus in contextual witness to Hindus.
–in Rethinking Forum
My response:
In India every name has a meaning and most of the time represents the nature of that Person. For example Rama means pleasant one, Krishna means black, Siva means auspicious etc. Of course one name may have several meanings as well. For example Siva also means, ‘the benevolent or gracious one’. However in sectarian faiths, each name of a deity represents that particular god and not merely the meaning of the Name. Take the name ‘Mukteswar’. This is definitely the name of Siva in Saiva sect and not merely the meaning. However in several Puranas one name of the deity is imposed on another god and this we can particularly found in Sahasranama (one thousand name) of that particular God (vide Sivapurana).
When it comes to the Name of our Lord ‘Jesus’, whatever that name means to us, for an average Hindu, it is the deity of a particular religion. When I was serving in Madhubani, one local lawyer, often told me, ‘Swamiji, just remove the name Jesus and in that place use the word “God”. Then what all you share and pray will appeal to us. With all your teaching, integrating several of our Hindu value, we can even start a new religious movement from here’. But my regular answer was that only in that Word JESUS I found all that I want to see in a God and no other word can replace this Name and I also quoted our famous verse from Acts 4:12. All through these years, however I try to contextualize the gospel and try to communicate the meaning and message behind the Name Jesus, because of its attachment with Christianity not only as a religion, but also as a Western Religion, severally restricted the communication.
But when I was reading the book, Bruchko (England, New Wine Press, 1973) there Bruce Olson , gives this interesting record:
The Motilone, for instance, always use names that have a meaning. There are no names like Kent or Kim that are names and nothing more. So Bible characters had to be given names that made sense. Abraham became the ‘Man Who Knows God’, John the Baptist became the ‘Announcer’ and ‘Jungle Dweller’, and Jesus ‘The only Son of God with Us’. Every time a name had to be given we spent long hours around the fire discussing the person and what kind of a name would be best for him. Often other Motilones would join us and would help with the decision. (p.168)
Then I began to think about it seriously. Of course I am not agreeing to the concept that Jesus Christ fulfilled certain aspects of Siva, Allah and Buddha about which I have already written in Living Water (2001, pp.110-111 ). However when I read the Sanskrit poem by Upadhyay ‘Vande Sacidanandam’, in the original one, there he was using the word ‘Govindam’ and ‘Sumukundam’ for our Lord. I also read the same poem in which the word ‘Govindam’ has been replaced with ‘Isukristam’. But for me the word ‘Govindam’ and ‘Sumukundam’ has no problem as the meaning behind the words are more important for me. Lipner translates ‘Iikshana-srujana-govindam’ as ‘who watched-over creation doth tend’ and ‘sumukundam’ as ‘our saving Friend’ (Brahmabandhab Upadhyay: The Life and Thought of a Revolutionary, Delhi, Oxford University Press, 1999, p. 201). Here I would again point out that I don’t say that Jesus fulfilled ‘Govind and Sumukund’, but what those words mean alone is important for me. In Bhajagovindam, Sri Sankara invokes in the very first sloka, ‘worship God (Govindam)’. There it clearly stands as the name of God and not for Krishna.
So after some reading, reflection, interaction and prayer now I am convinced that why cannot I too use Indian name for my Lord which would clearly convey the meaning. Interestingly changing theological terms was attempted even before Upadhyay. Richard Fox Young, in his excellent and important work: ‘Resistant Hinduism’ (Vienna 1981) trace out all previous attempts to ‘chose words in Indian language to convey most of the high doctrines expressed by Latin terminology, such as “incarnation,”, “justification”, and “sanctification”’. (p.32) This is an important book for those who want to understand all the previous developments in this endeavor.
If doctrinal and theological words could be changed in Indian language why not the meaning of our Lord’s Name as well? Here it is important to note that the word ‘Jesus’ is translated only as a derivative in most of the regional languages like Yesu in Tamil, Ishu or Ishu in Hindi and Jezu (in Bengal?). And several times this derivative word is pronounced in a strange and different way by both new believers and others in those language groups. And still worst is the fact that those derivatives instead of conveying the meaning ‘Jesus’ several times used as a mocking words by others. At the same time in Tamil Catholic Bible almost all the name of the disciples of our Lord are given (strange) Tamil names and not used in their Hebrew and Greek derivative (as in Protestant Tamil Bible).
Recently, accepting this need Raman Singh in one of his Hindi song about Our Lord’s sacrifice on the cross used the word ‘Muktinath’ and ‘maha yajna’, which not only well fit to the tune and tone of the language, but also effectively communicated the message in the overall context of the song.
Here I end my comments for the time being.
Dayanand, Mathigiri, May 12, 2003.
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Did you get this email? If not I must correct the RF site so that you do. I have just looked up who wrote this and it is an American who will be associated with Brian and Brad’s group. I do not actually remember him but he was in NY conference. RH
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Latest message was:
Swamiji,
I have heard that you have done some naming cerimonies. I would like for you to explain the importance and traditions of naming cerimonies in hindu families. Also when in a child’s life would such an event occur? My wife and I are hoping to settle in India by March of 2006 and our daughter, Shanti, will be 11 months old. Would it be appropriate and acceptable for our family to have a similar naming cerimony for Shanti?
A Hindu’s life is begins and end with Sanskars (religious and social ceremonies). Naming of a child is a joyful occasion as well as religious one. In traditional understanding, the naming ceremony is done in various ways. But in modern time it is mostly to share the joy of the child with friends and relatives. Though a secret name and pet name is given, now a days such practices are limited only with very orthodox people. Common people, even name the child before the function and on the ‘naming ceremony’ (Namakaran), they will arrange a function according to their capacity and elders and friends will bless the couple and also the new baby calling her/him by the given name. Even here there is no uniformity as each community and region celebrate it with local customs.
If you want to do a ‘Naming Ceremony’ for your baby, that will be an opportunity to give a good introduction about your family to your neighbors and other friends. So you can arrange one function for your daughter. If you need more information, pl. free to ask. Thanks for asking this question. God bless you and my blessings to your daughter.
Dayanandn Bharati
Naming ceremony
…Hoekstra [Philips software centre chief executive officer a Dutchman) and wife Geraldine are comfortable in Indian clothes…. So close are they to the culture here, that they have even performed a Hindu naming ceremony for daughter Marieke’s children—Merel (also known as Kavitha) and Tobias (aka Baskaran). His daughter and family fully appreciated the naming ceremony done about one-and-a-half years ago. “Though we did tell the priest that it is not necessary to call on all the Hindu gods in the galaxy to bless the children,” he adds.—Divya Sreedharan?TNN, These Dutchmen paint the town orgnge, Times of India, August 22, 2005, p. 3.
–Note that the Hindu priests have no problem in conducing such ceremony even not invoking ‘all the Hindu gods in the galaxy to bless the children’.–Dayanand
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Dear Chris and Bryony,
Shanti!
The instrument which Bryony mentioned is actually called ‘Nadasvara’ (Nada + svara). It is mostly used in South India, particularly in Tamilnadu. But it is used not for any omen or magical properties but is known as ‘mangala vadyam’ (auspicious instrument). Of course it is used in all the temple festivals, but there also it is used only as an ‘auspicious instrument’ without any magical purpose. The deity in the Temple is treated as a ‘King’ and so everything done to a King is also performed to the deity. And Nadasvaram is also known as ‘Raja vadyam’ (King among the musical instrument), it is used in temple.
No marriage will be performed without this instrument. Even most of the Christians, who claim to avoid any Hindu (Indian) symbol too most of the time use this instrument in their marriage. It is also used in secular events like welcoming any dignitaries, opening of any big events or shops etc. Its equalent in North India is known as ‘Shenai’ which too used in most of the marriages. In North India the daily temple ritual is not as elaborate as performed in South, Shenai is not used much in the temples there.
Hope this will give some answer to Bryony’s question. God bless you.
dayanand
dear bryony,
I currently have no information on details regarding this subject. You could possibly ask my friend dayanand bharati who may have some idea about this, i have cc’d a copy of this to him: you wrote: I’m trying to find out about the nagasvara and indian instruments and their use in the hindu temples – and in particular why they’re considered to be a good omen/ magical properties perhaps he can help,
Chris
Hi Chris,
My working title is something like ‘The Auspicious oboe, an investigation into the use of the world double reed instrument in different religions.’ In particular I’m trying to find out about the nagasvara and indian instruments and their use in the hindu temples – and in particular why they’re considered to be a good omen/ magical properties. Do you know much about this area or anyone who does? And if you do would you mind me asking you questions about it/feeding me information? Thanks very much, Gods grace be with you this Christmas,
Bryony Pearson
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Dear John,
Shanti!
I am not a Sanskritist and I never learned Sanskrit in a proper way. All my knowledge on Sanskrit came from my family tradition. So I am unable to give the exact translation for your request. However based on my practical knowledge here below I am giving one, which needs to be checked and corrected by some one who knows that language properly. I have already contacted some people to check this. Thanks.
dayanand
Dasa sahasra yoginam namanti bhagavan Mukteswaram.
However if you mean ten thousand (dasa sahasra) only means not literirly ten thousand but innumerable, then I would prefer to say:
Sahasram kotih yoginam namanti bhagavan mukteswaram.
Sahasra kotih means thousands of billion.
Shri Swami,
Namaste’
You need not be so humble about your Sanskrit! I also engaged the American Sanskrit Institute to translate for me, so I have multiple versions for comparison. Yours are very good, especially because you understand the difference between “ten-thousand” meaning myriad and the literal number.
Actually, in Chinese philosophy the number 10,000 means either, depending on context. For example, “the assembly of 10000 Buddhas” means all the Buddhas in history. This I learned many years ago while studying martial arts. “10000 yogis” came from my heart. It is perfect.
Also I notice that you like to call Jesus Mukteswara, God of Freedom. Is there a reason you prefer this to Prabhu or some other title? I will also look at the Rethinking website later. Thank you for your help, Yeshu mangalam,
John
Dear Yogiji,
As you are practicing Yoga, I would prefer to call you Yogi to John—if you don’t mind. Thanks for your encouraging word about my Sanskrit. However living in India I know where my Sanskrit stands. Better check with the American Sanskrit Institute about my translation. Those whom I contacted at Varanasi have not responded so far (as most of them do not know Sanskrit, but have to approach others to get the help).
Mukti means Salvation. It could also mean ‘freedom’ depending upon the context. However in general Mukti means salvation. As our Lord is the God of Salvation I prefer to call Him Muktinath; Mukteswar in North India where Hindi is the main language and Muktesan in Tamil. Of course Siva is also called Mukteswar. So to avoid confusion to some, I prefer Muktinath, as I never heard any other deity addressed in this Name. However in Tamil it clearly a unique name and I use it for Jesus in Tamil as well.
Prabhu actually means ‘Lord’. As it is a general word applicable to both God and human, I prefer to use the meaning of Jesus itself specifically to Our Lord.
Thanks for sharing about Buddha. In Oriental worldview both in poetic and hilosophical term ‘thousand’ ‘ten-thousand’ and ‘thousands’ always means innumerable.
Thanks for sharing your experience in the Lord. God bless you.
Dayanand
Swamiji,
I bow and put flowers and fruit at your feet. Thank you again for giving wisdom. So Shiva is also Mukteshvar (Moksha + Ishvara), but that is an exact translation of the Hebrew name Yeshua, God saves. Praise the name, jay nam. About the Christian kirtan, have you heard any? I bless our Lord because of people like you,
John
Shri Swami,
In excitement I completely ignored that you want to call me Yogi. Of course you may; coming from you it is an honor. And I am honored to know people are you, who love the Lord in an Indian way.
Yogi John
Dear Swami,
I thank our God, Mukteshvara, who is also Triloka Natha, Lord of the Three Realms, for giving the world people like yourself. Through you, the gospel will reach all the way into temples and ashrams. Where can I get a copy of your book, Living Water and Indian Bowl? Mukteshvara namah:
Yogi John
Dear Swami,
I thank you for your words, and thank our Lord for you. Blessings of amrta
on you and your family. Jesus gives us amrta! Blessed be his name. Om,
Mukteshvara namah:
This brings up an important question. Do you use “OM” in your prayers or other worship? To me it is not an idol, just a sound, and it produces a peaceful state of mind. But it is also the bija mantra of Hinduism. Do you think OM is appropriate in our worship? Thank you,
Satya meva jayate,
Yogi John
Dear Yogiji,
Om sir mukteswaraya namah!
Shanti!
The following is from the appendix of my book: Living Water and Indian
Bowl:
On the Use of OM by Christ Bhaktas
After research and collecting information from various sources, based on my knowledge as a layman the following are my opinions regarding using the word om in Christian worship.
1. Om is just an impersonal word, whatever may be the later developments in giving some meaning to it. It is like Sri which is being used to some gods like Sri Rama, etc. So we cannot address it or pray to it or even meditate on it. Can we meditate on the word Sri?
2. By using om for Jesus as John used logos, we cannot add any new theological insight to Christology that would be relevant to Indian contexts. John was inspired by the Holy Spirit to use it in the Scripture whereas we cannot claim such apostolic authority to add any new meaning to Jesus Christ, even though it would be relevant to our context in India.
3. Using cultural symbols and religious symbols are different matters. Though in some areas in India both culture and religion are intermingled, yet regarding om it is purely a religious symbol. So we must exercise care in our use of it. And I have some personal reservation in using the symbol of om both in picture or metal in the so called Christian ashrams. For example in Jeevanjyothi Ashram at Thaneerpalli [a branch of Shantivanam] they keep merely om in brass in their ashram and not even a cross.
Likewise, I also object to ‘crucifying’ om on the (Roman) cross as they have done in Shantivanam. At Matridham Ashram in Varanasi they keep it just below the crucifix of Jesus and even offer arati to it with rest of the ‘idols’ of Jesus and Mary in the ashram. Now it is removed by the present acharya. The same way there is a bhakta’s booklet of Khrist Chalisa where om is printed on the cover. All these things will misguide others more than help them to understand the message of Jesus Christ in Indian terms.
4. Om is not a common platform for our dialogue. We want to assimilate our faith in Christ remaining culturally and socially as Hindus. And in this we can only use those religious symbols which have more cultural meaning than religious, like decorating the house with rangoli [kolam], lighting oil lamps instead of candles, using saffron dress for sanyasis, etc. But however we try we cannot give a theological interpretation to such
a symbol as om. If our aim is only to use it to exploit the religious sentiment of the Hindus, then it is wrong in every way.
5. At the same time I have no objection for using it in our bhajans. As a mystic symbol we can use it in bhajans and namavalis like, “om namah khristaya”, etc. Likewise we can use it while we use some Upanishadic prayers as well as in ending our own prayers, as in om shanti! shanti! shanti!
Dear Swamiji,
Today the Lord has anointed my path. Through your words, I have received a blessing. Jai Muktinath!
Now I want to come to India, all my people are there! Believers who chant “Om namah Khristaya”, believers who sing kirtans! You don’t know how lonely it is in America for a yogi in Christ.
But that is why God has placed me here: lamps are needed in the dark, not in the light. Now I am alone, but soon I there will be many of us.
And I will shine, because the Lord shines through me. Because of the gospel, I am the light of yoga.
I am really not worthy of this gift. God knows I have problems, but maybe that is why he chose me.
So I bow before Triloka Natha, the Lord of Three Realms, who gives such gifts to men. Thank you, Swami, for being his devotee and my friend. Pray for me and all the bhaktans, that we hold up his name in love.
Om namah Khristaya
Yogi John
“Dayanand Bharati”
<dayanand_bharati@h To:
<JBillings@Herc.com
otmail.com cc:
<rethinkingforum@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Muktinath
07/30/04 11:54 AM
Dear Yogiji,
Shanti!
Thanks for your encouraging words. Actually I thought of asking few
questions related to Yoga. Soon I will send them. William Carrey
Library
has published my book. I am sending the copy to Jamie, who will help you
to
get one copy. Thanks. God bless you.
Dayanand
—– Original Message —–
From: <JBillings@Herc.com
To: “Dayanand Bharati” <dayanand_bharati@hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: Muktinath
Dear Swami,
I thank our God, Mukteshvara, who is also Triloka Natha, Lord of the
Three
Realms, for giving the world people like yourself. Through you, the
gospel
will reach all the way into temples and ashrams. Where can I get a copy
of
your book, Living Water and Indian Bowl? Mukteshvara namah:
Yogi John
“Dayanand Bharati”
<dayanand_bharati@h To:
<JBillings@Herc.com
otmail.com cc:
Subject: Muktinath
07/27/04 08:22 PM
Dear Yogiji,
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office”
/
As you are practicing Yoga, I would prefer to call you Yogi to John?if
you
don’t mind. Thanks for your encouraging word about my Sanskrit. However
living in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns
= “urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags” /India I know where my
Sanskrit stands. Better check with the American Sanskrit Institute about
my translation. Those whom I contacted at Varanasi have not responded so
far (as most of them do not know Sanskrit, but have to approach others to
get the help).
Mukti means Salvation. It could also mean ‘freedom’ depending upon the
context. However in general Mukti means salvation. As our Lord is the
God
of Salvation I prefer to call Him Muktinath; Mukteswar in North India
where
Hindi is the main language and Muktesan in Tamil. Of course Siva is also
called Mukteswar. So to avoid confusion to some, I prefer Muktinath, as
I
never heard any other deity addressed in this Name. However in Tamil it
clearly a unique name and I use it for Jesus in Tamil as well.
Prabhu actually means ‘Lord’. As it is a general word applicable to both
God and human, I prefer to use the meaning of Jesus itself specifically
to
Our Lord.
Thanks for sharing about Buddha. In Oriental worldview both in poetic
and
philosophical term ‘thousand’ ‘ten-thousand’ and ‘thousands’ always means
innumerable.
Thanks for sharing your experience in the Lord. God bless you.
Dayanand
@@@
Dear chris
thank you for your letter. i’m glad to know you understand my concerns. in the meantime i’ve learned alot about how hindus think and live. i talked to my teacher and told her i’m a christian. and that i want to learn this dance style, because i want to use this to minister to christian hindustani people through dance. she was open for that and she told me that this would be a challenge for her. to teach dance to a christian. but she’s very kind. i’m experiencing the same things you write in your letter about the other christian dancers who had to learn this dance also. i pray everytime when i’m at practice and watch out that my heart is closed for the prayers they say before they start the lesson. it’s also a challenge for me. and i’m grateful that my relationship with the Lord is still in great shape. although, sometimes i find myself asking if i’m doing the right thing.
>but still i’ve also found a great way to give expression to your music in dance. ( i hope you understand my english, i have to translate every word in my mind:). kavita, my teacher, and I have made a dance on your song ” Marga Darshan”. and while making this dance we learned about each others way of worshipping and she learned about the movements i make when I worship. we each put our own steps in this and we combined this. this was a special experience for the both of us. when she saw me dance in my way of worship it touched her. she’s a devoted dancer and your music also touched her heart. she said she loved all the bhajans on that cd. she wants to be in church when i will perform this dance. i pray then that God will touch her heart and she will devote herself to Him. i will try to put this dance on video so i can send it to you.
kavita put a movement of prayer in the beginning of this dance and i know that when i do this movement my heart is reaching out to the Lord. but still i have my doubts. maybe you’ve heard about the Namaskara, it’s a prayer movement. maybe you could find out if it would be better not to put this in the dance.
okay chris thank you for supporting me in this. i pray that the Lord will lead me.
God bless …..
Sharmalee
Dear Sharmalee
Sorry for the late reply on this!
I fully understand your concerns and would move ahead only with great caution, It is very dangerous to violate your own conscience. This is very much a matter of conscience, and though our concience is not always right, we have to follow it.
From what i understand from the christians who have learned this classical dance, is that for the sake of learning the art and using it in worship of the Lord, and because there has been no other way to learn it apart from this way, their conscience has been clear and they have gone ahead with faith and prayer in Christ, asking for his protection along the way.
However, each day is different, and as a Christian we are called upon to constantly step out of the comfort zone. For this reason it is important to try to find a teacher who will be more sensitive to your religious convictions and not try to draw you into the spiritual aspects of hinduism. Some teachers are very strong in this way and it is too hard to learn from them. So the search for the right teacher is important and sometimes this can take a few years. but even with the right teacher, times will come when you have to stand up and say “i can’t do this, or please allow me to refrain from this,” or just somehow avoiding the situation,. This needs lots of prayer because you don’t want to come across as arrogant, or ‘know it all’ with your teacher.
Basically, it is an opportunity to walk with your Lord Jesus out in the enemy territory, One needs a calling from Christ to do this. Others have walked this road in Christ before. Some have falled into spiritual Hinduism to some extent, so it IS dangerous. Others thrive for Christ and dance solely for his names glory.
Continue to pray, make no quick impulsive moves. God WiLL guide you,
blessings
chris
Dear swami ji
Here is a girl from surinam who is learned indian dance there (south america). She asks about the “namaskara” her teacher has taught to her and wonders about the content in it?
Also just to remind you about study of “OM”. As you may imagine, Kuru Chandy was not satisfied with your explanations of OM, particularly as there was no reason given why you “allowed use of OM in bhajans”. I was discouraged by that email as i thought he cannot change his view, what is the use., But soon i will be responding to that article, though I will write something very short (i believe there is not much space in that light of life magazine, and one only has one chance to write in it, and unless there is biblical references included they don’t even print it)
Love
Chris
Dear Chris,
Before I would share my response on ‘Namaskara’, I want to give my opinion about following our own conscience. This is a big subject and I will limit my view based on my experience and reason alone. Following one’s own conscience is several times become more dangerous than knowing what exactly the will of God in a given situation. Though we are ‘struggling saints’, yet we are only a ‘saved sinner’, as several areas of our life, including our psyche (mind, soul, spirit, ego, aham, etc.) are under the influence of our fallen nature. One can not only shape and guide but also twist and turn one’s own conscience according to her ‘convenience’ than to ‘conviction’. This also could be labeled as ‘situation ethics’. So where is some confusion regarding my own conscience, then I would seek the counsel and prayers of another believer to know about my conscience than to simply obey it. But here also I faced some problem. I found the counsel given by another believers is correct one, yet it is not going along with my present ‘convenience’, then I will ‘reason’ that counsel with my (fallen) conscience again and would try to follow my convenience in the name of conscience. So in such conflicting situation, I would follow the counsel given by my well wisher than to take any decision regarding following my conscience only. Because my counselor could see my situation both objectively and without any ulterior motive. However I agree that this is a hard situation for any one to take.
Another point is: ‘For this reason it is important to try to find a teacher who will be more sensitive to your religious convictions and not try to draw you into the spiritual aspects of Hinduism’.
–There is no uniform aspect of the so called spiritual aspect of Hinduism. Every individual Hindu (whether she is a teacher or guru or lay person) will give her own interpretation of Hindu spiritualism. So we have to do a study on that particular aspect which we consider as ‘spiritual aspect of Hinduism’. However I don’t understand what do you mean by ‘spiritual aspect of Hinduism’. Because, for me ‘bhakti’ is one of the best ‘spiritual aspects of Hinduism’. Do you mean to say ‘ritual aspect’ and ‘religious aspect’ of Hinduism from which one should guard?
Now coming to ‘Namaskar(m)’. Honoring elders and gods is an important aspect in Hindu worldview. This is shown in various ways according to the person to whom we show the honor. However to show that honor we not only use our (humble or warm) spirit but also express it through our body postures or mannerism. Modern young people either shake their hands or say ‘hai’ etc. to give expression of their greetings. But in Hindu worldview this is shown in different manner as you well aware of it: like saying ‘pranam’ (to your senior) and ‘namaste’ (to your equals), or touching the feet of the elders or folding the hand and slightly bowing the head (as commonly done in South India) etc. Similarly when one goes before her deity she has to do it both with spirit and manners. Particularly while learning any art (like dance in her case) before beginning she has to salute her deity and also guru. But while saluting the deity it symbolizes worshiping whereas saluting the guru it means showing respect. I have seen some special items in Bharata Natiyam, in which ‘pushpanjali’ (flower offering) will be done before even commencing the show—where the dancer will do a small puja through dance to the deity—with or without keeping any idol.
So ‘Namaskara’ performed in dance is actually saluting the deity (your own personal God or any God with out name and form) using various dance postures (called ‘mudras’) before proceeding to do other dance items. Interestingly I observed that this item is mostly performed in ‘Bharata Natiyam’ (also in Kuchipudi) than in other Indian dances like: Kathak, Odisi, Manipuri (mostly related to North India). But Joe (your friend in Olio) once asked me whether he can do ‘Namaskara posture’ to his guru before dance practice, as it was the first thing taught once he learnt few steps and mudras, then I told that in Indian fine arts saluting the guru (teacher) who teaches is an integral part. But while saluting the guru one is showing his respect to her/him and not worshiping her/him as God.
That’s all for the time being
db
@@@
Dear Friends, Br. George and Br. Rick,
Greetings in the most precious Name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
It is a great pleasure for me to be a part of all the discussions, the children of God had through the e-mails. I could visualize that God has a purpose in uniting us for a great mission especially in India and the Indian Diaspora throughout the world. All the deliberations thrown on the international forum may be to understand one another’s ministry and to gain more and better strategies to win India for Christ. As an organization, “National Institute of Leadership Training” (NILT) is committed to the dual vision of reaching out the unreached masses and equip the Christian brotherhood to show the right “path, truth and life”, through contexualisation of the Gospel. We have been conducting seminars for Evangelists, Christian Missionaries, Laities, Clergies and all believers and also full time courses for the final year Theological students in various Bible Colleges, for the past 13 years. After reading the letter addressed to Br. Alex I felt that I should approach Br. George in pure brotherly love and remind him of Galatians 5:22. I wish to humbly share my experiences along with my dear brothers in our orgainisations (NILT).
Some Pertinent Questions:
Why should there be so many denominations in the church if Christ alone is God of all?
Who are the original children of the soil of India?
How is it that 52% Indians condemned as backward castes?
How is it that 15% of Indians grouped and condemned as scheduled castes (Panchamas) and
7% as scheduled Tribes?
Who are the people who pushed these native Indians down as backwards, Panchamas and
Adivasis?
Are those who claim and identify themselves as forward castes really Indians?
Are those people, who ask the 16% religious minorities such as Muslims and Christians who are native Indian Dravidians to leave India, themselves native Indians?
Who are the Aryans and when and how did they come to India?
What were the Socio – religious conditions of India when Christ was born?
Who are the founders of original culture and civilisation of India?
Are they not “Sindhus” which word is wrongly pronounced as “Hindus” by foreigners?
What are the religious books of the Dravidian Indians?
Have Aryans written any original spiritual, religions or philosophical books?
How did the Aryans take control of the religious activities of the Dravidians and their
glorious heritage?
What do we mean by Hindu Religion and Hinduism or Hindutva? Who are leading them?
Who compiled the Vedas and in what language?
When did Sanskrit develop and for what purpose?
Are there Dravidian Vedas? What are the Agamas?
What is Varnashrama Dharma?
Who are Brahmins, Ksharthariyas, Vaisyas, Shudras, Panchamas and Dalits?
What are the basic doctrines of Hindu sects of Saivism and Vishnavism?
Have they got anything to do with Christian doctrines?
(Most of these questions have been very well answered by Dr Devakala through her various emails)
Truth alone will triumph. Jesus said “I am the truth”. Secondly, the native Indian Christians should know and do ministry in the following lines. (Deut.32:7) Think of the past time of long ago, ask your fathers to tell you what happened; ask old men to tell of the past. I personally feel that instead of going through or quoting foreign authors books and be proud about it, we should go to native scriptures/literatures written by our Christian forefathers and the latest research findings of our native writers who have written about the enhance, updated information which may be more appropriate for the history of Evangelism in India and for the methodologies to be adopted. Thirdly, if you have ears, then listen to what the spirit says to the church (Rev. 2:17, 2:29, 3:6, 3:13, 3:22)
Everything that happens in the world happen at the time God chooses Eccl. 3:1 Many true Indian Christians, elders, thinkers, historians and scholars in Indian Church are deeply studying and analyzing the ‘distorted history of India’, in the light of the word of God, These studies have brought out series of doctoral dissertation and thrown more light on the method of contexualised Indegeneous methods of evangelism to reach most of the learned Hindu brothers and Sisters who have little knowledge about their Vedantic literatures. The missionary organizations are concentrating on villages and tribal areas. I strongly believe that it is “God chosen time” that those research findings are coming out with truth in our Indian scriptures hence with an open mind, go to the field to reap and to develop more disciples, as Br. George was pointing out in this letter.
At this juncture I humbly submit that Dr. Alex has put his heart and soul to work amongst the predominant Brahmin Locality i.e. Mylapore in Chennai, interacting with many Temple priests and Brahmin friends by distributing his own flyers on attractive topics.
Dr. Devakala and I were also there along with Alex during that time. I still remember an elderly Brahmin priest just behind Kapaleeswarar temple started clarifying certain doctrinal spiritual annotations after reading the tracts “Brahmin awake” and “Why God took an avatar” by Alex, with Dr. Devekala, which was dealt by him in the clear perspective attributions as prompted by the holy spirit. An old Vaishnavite senior-most priest aged 82, cried with a loud voice saying, “you have opened my spiritual eyes”.
This is our field experience. The advent of St. Barthalamew and St. Thomas in the first century A.D. was the origin of the early Indian Christianity, but without this name, culminating into Saivism & Vaishavism.
I Wish to place before you this triune Scholars, Dr. M. Deivanayagam, Dr. D. Devakala & Dr. J.D. Baskaradoss who have brought out in a crystal clear sense the in-depth Christian doctrines and Jesus’ teaching prevailing in the Indian Scriptures in the Post-Christian era, namely the Vedantic Literatures, which denotes the New Testament historical realities of God coming down as Avator, (in carnation)-Sacrificed Himself to redeem mankind from sinful bondage and equip him for the eternal life.
Here are certain quotations of the basic five Christian doctrines as cited by Dr.Devakala in her emails on Saivisms & Vaishnavism. Vaishavism explains that God was born so He could deliver us from our sinful nature and give us a new life. This is being sung as follows:
“Poinninra Gnanamum Polla olukkum alukkudanbhur inninra neermai ini yam vuraamia vuyiralippaan ienninra Yoniumaai piranthaai imaiyore thalaivaa”
(God was born from a noble woman in order to give us a new life so that deceptive knowledge, immorality and unclean body would not posses us-Nammalvar Thiruvirutham 3580)
The purpose of the avatar of God is explained in Saivism as follow:
“Iravaa inbaththu yemai iruththal vendi, Piravaa mulkalvan piranthaan”
(The unborn prime God was born to give us eternal pleasure)
If it is said that God became an avatar so that man can be liberated from the bondage of sin to acquire eternal happiness, then when did man fall into Sin?
Sivagnanapotham, the theological foundation for Saivism, says as follows:
“Ava naval athu yenum avai moovinaimayin.
Hithiye odungi malaththulathaam
Antham aathi yenmanaar pulavar.”
In the beginning God created man (avan-first man), woman (aval-first woman) and the world (athu-all other creatures) in three different actions and they were holy.
But later on they fell into sin or malam which ended the life of holiness and was the beginning of sin, say the scholars.
How did creation, which was holy, fall into sin? Saivasiddanta explains it as follows:
Muththi Muthar Kodikkae mogak kodi padarnthu
Aththi Paluththathu yenru vunthee para
Appalham vunnaathae vunthee para”
Amongst the creatures which were holy, on the first creeper (first man) the creeper of Sin crept over and bore the fruit of evil. Speak this forth. Do not partake of that fruit. Speak this forth. (Thiruvantiyar 41)
When did this happen?
The Bible tells us that it occurred after the first man Adam ate the fruit that he was forbidden to eat. Adam was given the commandment not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but when he disobeyed God, sin took dominion over. Thus all the People who are the descendants of him, the first man, have fallen into sin since he disobeyed God’s Commandment. Hence the sinful nature, which continuously passes through the generations, is known as ‘Sahasa Mala’ in Saivism and ‘Janmabhandh’ in Vaishnavism.
God alone is holy and without sin. Saivism and Vaishnavism accept that all the people are born with a sinful nature. But Adventists, whose doctrines are totally contrary to the doctrine of God, say that the concept of sin is ‘maya’ or illusion. Then each one can claim that ‘I am God’ and become equal with God. Thus they have devised a doctrine, which is totally contrary to God.
Who can liberate man who is born in a sinful nature?
Are human efforts sufficient to liberate himself or does God need to intervene? God alone can liberate him, since man himself is sinful by nature. In order to redeem man from sin and show him the path, God became a man with five senses.
This is explained in Vaishnavism as follows.
‘Pavamaruppaar’ (God who takes away our Sin) Sadagopar Anthaathi – 8)
“Avan Kandaai nannenjae aararulum kedum
Avan Kandaai aimpulanaai ninraan avan kandaai…….”
With a pure heart, know him who is with five senses, who is having grace, and who is the destroyer of sin)
Nalaryira Divya Prabhandam, Eyarpa erandam Thiruvanthaathi (24)3807)
The above mentioned songs show that God became a man with five senses, a Guru, and destroyed the power of sin over us by observing the penance of the suffering and death, in order to redeem man. It is explained in Saivism as follows,
“Aimpula vaedarin ayarnthanai valarnthena
Thammuthal guruvumai dhavaththinil vunarththa vittu
Anniyam immuiyin aran kathal selumae”
God, who came into this world as a Guru, on seeing the souls who are living in worldly pleasure by enjoying the pleasures of the five senses, made them free through his penance of suffering of death. Once the soul is enlightened through his suffering, it repents of its Sins, and the separation with God is removed and it reaches the feet of God).
(Sivagnanapotham – 8)
Penance doesn’t refer to the penance that is being observed by a hermit in a forest.
Thiruvalluvar says that real penance is sacrificing one’s own life for others.
‘Thanuyir thaanarap peruthal’ (Thirukurral 268)
Hence God is described in Saivism as ‘Meydhavam Kaan’
(Look at the one who has done true penance) (Thirunavukkarasar 265-8)
Perundhavaththu yem pingnagan kaan
(Look at our Lord of great penance) (Appar – Pa A 278-5)
The same concept is explained in Vaishaavism as follows.
‘Thaanae dhava vuruvum’
(He is the embodiment of penance) (Nalaryira Divya Prabhandam)
Hence the God who accepted the penance of the suffering of death and offered himself as a sacrifice is being sung in the following Saivite songs.
‘Aviyumaagi’
(One who became the sacrifice) (Appar 307-81)
Aviyaai aviyumaggi arukkamaai perukkamaagi
Paaviyar paavam theerkum paramanai Brahmanaagi
Why not make use of these doctrines, their literatures, scriptures etc., wherever they are found to present the gospel of Jesus, to Indians, as St. Paul did in Athens (Acts 17: 22-31) The world cannot ignore the fact that 90% of Indians are Dravidians who are craving for Jesus but not for the church denominations foisted on us by the Europeans.
The supreme God became Brahma and he is the sacrifice and sacrificed himself in order to redeem sinners)
“Pori Vaayil ainthavithaan poither ozhukka
Neri ninraar needu vaazhvaar”
(Those who follow the one who sacrificed hi five senses on an instrument and showed us the way and who is the life on an instrument and showed us the way and who is the life and truth, will have eternal life) (Thirukkural-6)
“Semmalar nonthaal serial otta
ammalam kaliee anbarodu mariyee
maalara neyam matithavar vaedamum
aalayam thaanum aran yena thoulmae”
(once God cleanses a soul which is separated by sin from the feet of God which looks like a red flower because of its sacrifice (nonbu) it becomes one with God and it is freed from confusion and it overflows with love of God and it reaches the feet of God and become temple of God) (Sivagnanapotham – 12)
Thirumular says, Ullam perumkovil voon undambil aalayam
(our soul is great temple and our body also is a temple)
(Thirumular Thirumundiam 1792)
Vaishnavism dontoes this as ‘Shethram or Shethranggnam’ (Bhagavat Gita XII – I)
Bible tells that ‘you are the temple of God (I Cor.3:16). God wants everyone to live with his joy in our hearts. He took the form of a man, sacrificed himself on the cross and bestowed liberation and redemption to mankind.
Thus the influence of Christianity in Hindu thought is clearly seen; however the fullness of the truth is seen only in Saiva siddhanta where Meykandar’s Sivagnanapotham sets the standard for the truth. Many do not realize that the roots of Hindu Religion are in south India. Their founding saints – 63 Nayanmars of Saivsim and 12 Alvars of Vaishnavism were all from the south and the evidence for early Indian Christianity has been buried all theses years in Tamil literature. However the theistic faith of the Hindus was later corrupted by the atheistic philosophy of monism”
I praise God for our curriculum director Prof. Dr. J. D. Baskara Doss who is a fine teacher with quiet and composed out look. He is an example of how almighty God can convert an ordinary stone discarded by people into a Conner stone. He is the author of ten books published by NILT which could be found in our web site www.niltindia.org, and continues to contribute through NILT glorifying God through his versatile writing with the power of the Holy Spirit. He is an inspiring, encouraging and resourceful teacher. I firmly believe that the future of Indian Churches is in the hands of those who use the recent years’ findings of research scholars like Dr. J.D. Baskara Doss.
I am not a Scholar but through faith and the wisdom that God has given to me, I am convinced of many of the research findings of researchers, which motivated me to involve in this unique ministry.
I put my hands folded with gratitude before God’s children namely Dr. M. Divanayagam, Dr. D. Devakala, Dr. Alexander Harris, Dr. G. John Samuel and of course our curriculum director Prof. Dr. J.D. Baskara Doss for their excellent contribution.
My special thanks to my dear elder brother M. Sundar Yesudian, author of many revolutionary books like “India is a Christian Nation”, from which I could pick up many informations.
I wish to state that we have friendly associate organisations like “Allellujah Prayer Fellowship” headed by the dedicated couple, Mrs. and Mr. Rupert, with 300 foster children from Hindu brothers and sisters, mostly from Brahmins, 90% of them being NILT Trainees. They are well equipped by NILT to introduce Christ to other non-believers through the contexualised teachings.
This team’s main Evangelical approach is through a Christian play (Drama) called “Prajapathi” an indigenous, professional play on the life of Jesus Christ. The “Prajapathi” drama is normally witnessed by 10 to 15 thousands Hindu gathering, enacted in important and predominantly Hindu towns and villages of Tamilnadu. A radio clipping is also available in our NILT website.
Another organisation, “Christiava Brahmana Seva Samithi” with more then 150 Brahmin families as members, under the leadership of a pioneering evangelist known for his contextualized teachings, Evan. Sadhu Chellappa and the core members and evangelists from that group of Brahmin believers are our NILT trainees who will vouch and witness for our success in this method of Evangelism. NILT also trains the skilled participants of the various seminars, to become its faculty, to teach in future programmes.
Some more associate organisations are Anarya Samajam and GBS Ashram – headed by Mr Yaseva, who is also a NILT trainee, staged a unique Bharatha Natyam performance amongst 90 % of Hindu community, deliberating the 12 sudhras of Sivangnanabotham.
This contextualized truth about Christianity in India is indeed the Good news of the third millennium for the whole world which is suffering under a Vulgar and aggressive suffronisation.
God honors our (NILT) sincere work in His vineyard and opens more doors to build his Kingdom, according to His promise in Act 28:28.
If I have unintentionally wounded any of the readers, I apologize for the same. I request you to share your views on the above written lines.
Let God’s glory alone be magnified.
G.J. Pandithurai, Founder-President, NILT
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Namaskar Swamiji!
Shanti, Shanti!
Thanks for your email and offer to put your material on the website! I have appreciated your blog thoughts. We will be happy to respect your wishes about the pictures. I happened to see a picture on dustysandals.com (rob sinclair-related website)–that I thought looked a lot like you–have you seen it? It may just be a look-alike! In any case…
Swamiji, I had a couple of questions that we have been having–they are Hindi questions, but related to all of us…
We have not been satisfied with the Hindi term, “pavitra aatma” for the Holy Spirit–especially the static nature of Aatma which to most people means “soul” and something we already have and do not need from God (ie, aatma by definition is part of God/holy). At this point we are considering
1) Divya/pavan shwaas — divine/holy breath–a concept related to life (yes), movement (yes), empowerment (a little bit)–good connections with the OT word “Ruah” for spirit, acts at pentacost “there came a mighty rushing wind” and in John 20 when Jesus breathes on them and says, receive the divine breath!
But, this is not a very common term–when I mention divya shwaas to Hindus they automatically say, don’t you mean divya shakti?
or
2) Divya/pavan shakti/mahashakti– Suggested by chakkarai– This is great for “Power”, but friends in Varanasi feel it is too closely related to the Mother goddess. This would, for good Hindi grammar, to have to be translated as “she” in the John 14-16 passages. What has been done in Tamil? Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated–
——Then, a second question is related to possibly translating “the kingdom of God” as “God’s Dharma Yuga” the time that is already, but not yet…May your dharma yuga come…may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
I have been thinking about constructive comments for your revised edition. The book, I think, is incredible! I noticed, however, that you did not have guru/sadguru in your glossary and that you had a question mark after narayan, swami…? That question mark is not necessary! I do not know of any other things, but will review it once again.
Bahut, bahut dhayawad!
Jai Yeshu!
Paul
On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 8:54 AM, Dayanand Bharati <dayanand.bharati@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Nancy and Paul,
Shanti!
Thanks for your mail. Down loading from website is bit problamatic here, as I don’t have brad band fecility in gurukulam. However I will try soon. At present I am busy in revising Understanding Hinduism for the second edition. If you have read that book and have any comments, criticism for me to make some change, please send them immediately.
I have only one request regarding the webside. Don’t display any of my pictures, or photos etc. But you can use any of my writings. I have plently of unblished articles, book reviews, dialogues. I also have written around hundred of bhajans in Tamil and composed music for that too. I also have translated Krist Gita by Danjibai, in Tamil. In fact I re-wrote it in poetic form and composed my own music for it. It has 23 chapters but all in Tamil. I am not sure whether you would like to include all these in the website. Better you also contact Rick, as he knows about my writings well, he can share his views. Thanks.
Please don’t use Hotmail ID any more but only my new e-mail ID for all kinds of contact: dayanand.bharati@gmail.com
Take care. My love to your children. God bless you.
dayanand
—– Original Message —–
From: Paul Ingold
To: swami m ; Swami Dayanand Bharati ; Brian and Linda bpetersen@saquest.com ; raman singh
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2008 3:22 AM
Subject: yeshubhakti.com website
Jai Yeshu!
Paul and I have been working on a website for Yeshu bhaktas, for mutual encouragement and connection. Would you preview it for us and please give us your feedback. We have not completed it and we are open to changing it to make it most helpful. Swami Ji and Bara Swami Ji, we have borrowed a couple quote from your writings and included them under Yeshu Bhaktas Speak (we need to think of a better title for that section perhaps). We also included links to your blogs. I hope that is okay.
Our hope is that you would share more with us, in the way of devotional thoughts, teaching, and wisdom from the word.
We also included a devotional video using and Aradhna song. Please let us know if it is easy to download from where you are. ‘The download time may make it unpleasant for some people. so we may need to adjust it.
Thank you for your help.
Shanti,
Nancy and Paul
Dear Nancy and Paul,
Thanks for pointing out about guru/satguru missing in UH. Narayana guru question mark is typed by the publisher I think. They have done several mistakes even after I sent the proof reading. Hope they will correct all of them as I sent the list today.
Now coming to Holy Spirit and KG: in Tamil ‘Parisutta aavi’ and ‘Tuuya aavi’ is mostly used. The word ‘aavi’ is not a good term as bad spirit is also called ‘Ketta aavi’. Both Parisutta and Tuya means almost ‘Pure’ alone. I would rather prefer ‘Irai aanma’, which means: spirit of God.
Now coming to Hindi, with my limited Hindi knowledge I would rather not give my opinion. However : pavan aatma will be preferable.
The concept of ‘yuga’ is cyclical. So when you say : let your dharma yuga come, then it could also mean that it won’t be permanent like satya yuga. Can we use ‘dharm raj’ like ‘Ram raj’?
I never go to website as it confuses me very much. To day I went to your website but I cannot follow anything. I will go and see Rob’s website and will also place the same request if I found some pictures of mine. Thanks for sharing that information.
So I cannot go and see your website. And I request you to ask any specific question directly related to website. Thanks.
Db
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naturally Christian soul
…to the literature which is regarded by them {Indian people} all as a part of their own sacred scriptures, I find in this also passages of such deep spiritual beauty and moral insight, that I have found myself constantly saying— ‘This is nothing else than Christian’. It must be remembered in this connection, that the very greatest of all these passages are historically dated many centuries before the birth of Christ. Therefore, it is not possible to say about them, that they were drawn directly or indirectly from the teaching contained in the New Testament. For in their case at any rate, the New Testament had not been written when they were composed. —p. 219
This is the main problem with people of other faiths always comparing their faith either in an affirmative or negative way. For example, most of the Christians will call people of other faiths as ‘non-Christians’ in a negative way. They forgot the fact that people following other religions never call the Christians as ‘non-something’. I am not sure whether even Muslims ever call others as ‘non-Muslims’ though they call others as ‘kafirs’,1 though several scholars while writing about Islam used the word ‘non-Muslims’. BETTER CALL PEOPLE WHAT THEY ARE AND NOT WHAT THEY ARE NOT. Or don’t do as Andrew has done, while appreciating the teachings in other faiths, will brand them compared only with their Christian faith. Why should any teaching, could not be as it is as teaching from Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism etc. and should be ‘nothing else than Christian’. Even a liberal like C.F. Andrew held such a view, what to say about others who uphold exclusive claims about their faith and doctrine. Anyhow Andrew used a better term, than to call Hindu scriptures as ‘demonic’ and from the devil as some of the fundamentalist among Christian’s brand Hindu Scriptures. Of course, Andrews was not the first to use such terms. Back in the history …even Tertullian, the Latin-speaking African, used the words ‘naturally Christian soul’ about the so called non-Christians:
…even Tertullian, the Latin-speaking African, who was otherwise not seldom harsh and narrow-minded in his outlook, could write about the ‘anima naturaliter Christiana’ {‘naturally Christian soul’} among those who were not Christians. (p.221) This one phrase of his writings has remained, down the centuries, as a current coin among mankind, while much else that he wrote may well be forgotten.” (ibid. pp. 221-222).
Though Andrews appreciates such terms thinking that it is a positive attitude towards the people of other faiths, still people of other faiths won’t have similar appreciation about such statements, either by Andrews or Tertullian as they never beg for such a ‘Christian charity’. Considering people of other faiths, to appreciate their own noble qualities as ‘naturally Christian soul’ is nothing but a derogatory term with a condescending spirit always upholding the view that one’s religious doctrine is higher than others.
Of course, we cannot blame the non-Hindus [the term that should not be used for them] alone in this regard. I have read books by Hindus in which it is pointed out how the Bible derived its teaching only from Hindu scriptures. One time I read in a book by a Hindu in which he tries to prove how all the 66 books in the Bible got their source only in Hindu Scripture. [I have that reference with me, but I cannot immediately locate it]. Even some went to the extent of saying that Jesus came to India [particularly to Kashmir {May be for holidays or retreat in a cool place} and learnt from Hindu rishish and munis and went and preached in his place.
I can multiply such examples. In similar a vein, I have read a few Christian books claiming Tiruvalluvar was at least influenced by the Gospel brought by Thomas to South India; the Gita borrowed its bhakti concept from the Uttara Veda (NT), Adamic faith was started in India, and the worst was one author trying to prove that Adam was Tamilian. There is another group in the name of Tamil Samayam claiming that both Saivam and Vaishnavism is the offshoot of Tahomasic Christianity. They have their own website and those who are interested to learn more about them can find information there. The following points by them are enough to show their agenda:
Saivism and Vaishnavism were emerged and evolved in Tamil land due to the mission of St. Thomas, who worked and martyred in Tamil land and Christianity that developed in Tamil land, in Tamil culture and in Tamil language from 1stc.A.D. is now known as ‘Tamilar Samayam’.
Vedavyasa had compiled and classified the nomadic worship songs of the Aryans as Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Veda. He is not an Aryan but Dravidian /Tamilian (the term ‘Dravidian’ is the twisted form of the term ‘Tamilian’). He belongs to Vedantic concept i.e., St. Thomas Christianity. He compiled and classified the Vedas in order to proclaim Vedantic concept i.e., St. Thomas Christianity to the Indians.2
How a Dravidian Vyasa understood the language of the nomadic Aryans is enough to show the shallowness of such arguments.
There are several common features in human history throughout the world which were mostly indigenous and influenced by neighboring and other cultures. In the course of history which is original and which is the borrowed idea is very difficult to judge. So better accept and respect the precepts and tenants of every faith and Scripture for its own merit than comparing and contrasting with other faiths and Scriptures. Similarity3 in thought and acts doesn’t mean that they should be branded with our name and terms [as Andrews have used]. Hunger is a common experience for all living beings but the way of cooking differs from place to place. Family is fundamental for social life but how it was organized and lived out is not the same everywhere. Also note that similar such spiritual and moral teachings are found in all the religions of the world, as the basic needs of human beings are the same everywhere.
Accepting others as they alone show one’s maturity in life.
DB
31-01-2023.
1.. …They {Muslims} used this term to distinguish between themselves as believers (or “holders of faith”) and native (or Hindavi) unbelievers (kafirs). This term, both in Arabic and in Persian, was also used to distinguish Muslims from India-those who were called Hindavi – from Muslims who came from other parts of the Islamic world….— Robert E Frykenbberg, Constructions of Hinduism: at the Nexus of History and Religion. (First published in Journal of Interdisciplinary History, 1993, Vol. 23, No. 3, pp. 523-550), Critical Quest, New Delhi, 2009. p. 4
‘…Unlike the historians of the sultanate period, the Arab travellers refer to the non-Muslims as zimmis and not as kafirs (infidels).’ {S. M. Ikram, Muslim Civilization in India (New York and London: Columbia University Press, 1964) p. 17}….— Arvind Sharma, The Ruler’s Gaze: A study of British Rule over India from a Saidian Perspective, Noida, HarperCollins Publishers, 2017, p. 269
2From about this time, ca. 400, we find writers mentioning as St. Thomas’s fields of work almost all the countries from Nubia to China, nay even Brazil, Germany and Japan. South India is found only in this augumented list, and that not before Marco Polo (1288-93), explicitly. Even the West Asian neighbour, Bishop Bar-Hebraeus (1226-86) the historian, does not mention South India, or any part of it, or the Brahmin priest, or the seashore tomb, but stands by murder on a mountain mentioned in The Acts of ca. 210, and therefore burial also on that mountain.— India’s St. Thomases In 4 Tombs. T. K. Joseph, Chengannur, S. W. India. Pp. 178-185, in Dr. H. L. Hariyappa and Dr. M. M. Patkar, eds. Professor P. K. Gode Commemoration volume. Oriental Book Agency, Poona, 1960. p. 182
It will be evident from the foregoing sections that:
a. The earliest documents describe St Thomas the Apostle as a Christian martyr, slain with spears or lances on a mountain and buried on that mountain itself, whereas South India’s Thomas was from Marco Polo to Diogo (1288 to 1517) a Pariah-arrow killed non-martyr claimed by Muslims in Polo’s days as “a Saracen saint of their own”, and buried on the seashore.
b. After 15167 South India deliberately transformed its non-martyr into a martyr, and that a martyr killed in several ways, although only priest-lance-martyrdom is retained now.
c. Since what is admittedly real St Thomas’s skull, certified as entire, with “no part missing” has been at Ortona since 1258 from India, the skull bones found in two Mylapore tombs in 1522 and 1523 cannot be really his.
d. The tradition embodied in Travancore Syrian Catholica St Thomas Song “of A.D. 1601”, and in its alleged original, the contemporary St Thomas History of the first century, has not yet been proved to be genuine or authentic, or of the dates assigned to them.
Rev. Fr. H. HERAS, S.J., Director of the Bombay Historical Research Institute, says in his letter to me, dated 6th February 1953 thus: “About the tomb” (of St. Thomas, the martyr) “I am fully convinced that it has never been in Mylapore. I have stated that many times.”
Prof. LATOURETTEE, of Yale University, U.S.A., reputed church historian, says in his letter to me dated 18th October 1952 that the evidence against South India’s St. Thomases in three toms, given in my pamphlet of 22-7-1952 (sent to him, H. H. The Pope, and others) “is very convincing.”
In 1927 Dr. Sylvain LEVI, of Paris, and Dr. Jarl CHARPENTIER, of Upsala, wrote to me that al evidence is against South India. Their opinion was published that year. (Most of the details in this article are also in my book Six St. Thomas, May, 1955).—ibid. India’s St. Thomases In 4 Tombs. T. K. Joseph, Chengannur, S. W. India. Pp. 178-185, in p. 185
3 F. Lorinser in Die Bhagavad-Gita: Ubersetzt und Erlautert from 1869 suggested the following similarities in Gita and Bible teachings:
John 3.3=BG 9.31; John 14.21=BG 7.17; John 14.6=BG 9.18; John 6.57=BG 6.30; John17.23=BG 6.29; Revelation 1.8=BG 6.29; Matthew 9.2=BG 18.66; Romans 14.23=BG 17.28. (from S. R. Sastri 1993, 65)
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